underfloor heating

[ethascar]

Hi everyone new here so hi.
I have a question regarding underfloor heating.
What i have got is i have had water underfloor heating put in in my extension.
What is happening is this,
There is hot water going down into the underfloor heating but non returning.
What i have done.
I have gone around my bungalow and shut off all the radiators at the valve and turned them back 1 turn and turned all the tcv (hope thats what there called) valves off to try and see if i can balance the system.
I then went round and bleed all the radiators and got any air out that was in the system.
I then turned the underfloor heating on to see what happened.
Same again the flow got hot but not the return pipe.
So next i looked at the flow gauges and ajusted those to suit what it said regarding the flow rate required (lts/min) 1.2in this case.
What was then happening was that i could see water in the pot but it was not going upto the red indicator that was set at 1.2.
I hope i have explained myself ok as i am an electrician (no did not install this myself).
Any advice is much appreciated and thank you for looking in adavance.
If you want any more info i will try my best to explain.
Cheers
Nic

 

[justlead1]

Hi. i could be to bigger circuit. (frictional resistance to great) but more likely air. Personally i would disconnect the return local to manifold and purge into a bucket, until a constant flow was achieved.

 

[ethascar]

thanks justlead1 for replying.
I have had a feeling it would be air and thought that by trying to balance the system out and turning all the radiator valves down etc might have done this.
Looking at the installation guide that was left by the plumbers I can see where to attach a cold mains hose etc but there is no drain outlet also not being a plumber im not sure, making me i guess less than confident to disconnect the return local to the manifold 1 reason is which pipe and where would it be
(ie what side of the manifold) bottom is flow that i know but is the return local on the left or right guess the left as you look at it face on but would not want to flood the place out, how do i isolate it etc etc.
Cheers
Nic

 

[justlead1]

Hi. The two pipes feeding the manifold are F and R and the individual circuits may be turned of using the individual valves (in some cases, a bit like a consumer unit) Completely isolate manifold F and R have a bit of hose handy that looks like it will fit over the pipe/pipes that form the underfloor circuit. Pick one that is easiest undo (mop up the bit of water) once undone fit hose and turn valve on (it will not matter which way the water goes around the circuit at this stage. Just purge it of air, remembering to charge system at same time if its a sealed system.

 

[ethascar]

Hi sorry to sound like a thicko on the installation manuel it is saying there is an auto air vent fitted at the side and a hose attachment to fill again, how does the auto air vent work and would this not let the air out? also should they have put a means of venting the system somewhere in the pipe weork feeding the underfloor heating? so then i could have gone there and vented it this way like a radiator?
Sorry if that sounds dumb.
Cheers
NIC

 

[Toddyplumb]

The Plumbers (?1) should have commisioned and sorted all this out . Get them back ASAP ! Do not over heat your floor !!!

 

[ethascar]

This is where the problem lies getting them back to tell you the truth, what they did in my extension is appaling and i do not really want them anywhere near my house again i had them out 3 times to look at this and the last time they came they said they got it working unfortunatly i had to go out and pick my daughter up from nursery and left them there when i came back they said they got it working but obviosly never did, i had a friend come out and he said there is no way they ever got it going and i agree they should have commisioned it, i also had a steam shower that they were going to fit for me but again after several visits and taking the installation manual away with them several times, they just did not fill me with confidance, they fitted a new overflow system and new hot water tank in the loft with a pump etc for the shower and after the 3rd time they went away again i decided to get a proper steam shower installer in and he could not beleive what they had done, all it needed was a pev putting in, which i did raise with the plumbers at the time but they just ignored me (sorry for rambling but this is why i do not want them near my property)

 

[Toddyplumb]

Same old story ! Crap plumbers . Were they a member of any trade body . Gas Safe ? CIPHE ? APHE ? If so report them !
Maybe they had done a fast track , set up as self employed , times are tight and took on more than they knew how to do !
Did you pay them ?
Sorry for the scinicism .... It does not help you .
Could you post a picture of the manifold and pump arrangement
Does it have its own pump or is it a conservatory type pack ?

 

[ethascar]

Hi Toddyplumb thanks for all your help and it does not sound like scinicism.
Yes we did pay them not all of it, well say that cant understand there invoices for the life of me so dont know what we have and haven't paid them for.
Yes the manifold does have its own pump on it and will see what i can do regarding a picture.
Cheers
Nic

 

[ethascar]

Here are some pictures of the manifold for you to look at as requested.
Thanks
Nic

 

[Toddyplumb]

Everything looks like its in the right place . On the return bar of the manifold are the actuators open ? Or are they manual valves, cant see any wires .
How long have you given it to warm up ?
Dont expect the manifold sections to get hot , they will only get warm as the pump is circulating your return water .
So as said above it may just be air, certainly doent look like any major problems , even got the zone valve !
What is the setting on the blending valve (behind the pump)

 

[ethascar]

They are manual valves.
I have given it over 24hrs and nothing on the return pipe, at the side of the manifold are my flow and return pipes so i can check that way to see if the return is getting warm but it doesn't, the manifold and pump get warm as well but nothing going back, i can feel water going back up the pipe when i touch it so i know the valves are open, i am guessing it is air and is the only way of getting it out is how justlead1 stated? hope not as this sounds daunting.
Cheers
Nic

 

[moony]

View attachment 1225View attachment 1226View attachment 1227

Here are some pictures of the manifold for you to look at as requested.
Thanks
Nic

there is an automatic airvent on that

 

[moony]

check setting on the blending valve as toddy suggested - has it ever worked?

 

[ethascar]

Thanks for the reply moony.
I have said there is an automatic airvent on the system (that is by no means meant to be sarcastic as all the help is much appreciated), how would i know if the auto airvent works, how does it work do i need to do anythink? ok auto but how can i tell it works?
The blending valve at the back is set to 50 degrees (sorry forgot to put that in last thread) as for working i would not have a clue, sorry dont mean to sound thick.
Cheers
Nic

 

[Toddyplumb]

Bottom rail of manifold at the right , there is a white cap , remove it and you should see an adjusting screw , make sure it is open.
It may still be closed from fitting !
Do you have commisioning notes

 

[ethascar]

Hi toddy.
That is saying it is set at 40degrees.
As for commisioning notes these guys did not even commision it the last time they came out they just said its working and thats it but as i said i was picking up daughter from nursery so did not actually witness anything regarding it working.
When they came out last thye electrician who was doing the electrics (not part p myself) happened to be coming past and he popped in and they tried to blame him but after a recent conversation with the electrician i asked him if he actually seen it work and he says no all they did was to get water flowing through the pipes which was more than we had previously from how they had left it on previous number of visits they made regarding the under floor heating.
Another weird thing happens as well when we put the under floor heating on is that 2 of the radiators come on as well, no others just 2 but it is supposed to be running seperatly.
Cheers
Nic

 

[stevetheplumber]

doesnt look like its piped right to me as one pipe goes directly in on right and other on left usually youd have both to the left to put f and r into the mixer which i cant even see in the photo

 

[Toddyplumb]

Pipework is fine ! Flow coming in on left through thermostatic blending valve , to pump which is circulating through flow manifold returning to return manifold and ciculating through pump again . It will only return to boiler ( bottom right boiler return) when blending valve is injecting flow from boiler .
Is the return valve open , bottom right under cap ?
I have had a closer look at photos and what looked like a zone valve now looks like a pipe stat ? Which is it ? What make is it all ?

 

[ethascar]

Hi guys some more pics for you, hope these might help? also underfloor heating has come on so this is how it is all reading with it on. and also thank you ever so much for all your time everyone especially toddy its much appreciated

 

[Toddyplumb]

Third photo shows the zone valve.
First photo shows a pipe stat, do you know what this is controlling / switching

 

[ethascar]

Hi Toddy the pipe stat is on the flow pipe hope thats what you were asking so i guess its controlling that if its working that i dont know, how can i check?
Cheers
Nic