Where does the plumbing stop and the gas engineering start???

[plumbster3456]

kirkgas quote**** that is quite correct, and what must he do before he runs gas through it? confirm it is fit for purpose and installed as per BS6891, and IGE/UP1B, which both demand he checks it is installed properly before he first introduces gas to it, how can he confirm that if he cant fully inspect and confirm that alll joints are properly made and appropriately positioned, and the pipe is properly supported, and properly sized for the load ***quote

because obviously you would not be signing off any pipework with out actually seeing it first which could mean you are up stairs pipeing the boiler and your mate who is a plumber is down stairs running a 3/4" pipe or even 1" pipe which then I could connect it to the boiler and then to the meter and test then put floors back down and test again.
Is this still incorrect kirk gas ? you seem to know a lot on regs or should one of us actually phone gas safe and find out the whole truth on this.
I think nearly every one on here who does a lot of heating will at some time allowed a plumber or heating engineer to do this especially if they are busy hanging boiler.
Also how can a apprentice learn gas if the regs are saying he cant touch the gas train? does this mean I broke the rules when my trades man had me doing the gas tightness before and at the end of every job?

 

[Reg Man]

Great Sense Plumbster3456. You must be satisfied the work has been done properly. The best way to ensure that is to install it yourself. Quite right what you say about trainee's. Trainee's can do the gas work if they are under direct supervision of a competent operative.

 

[kirkgas]

because obviously you would not be signing off any pipework with out actually seeing it first which could mean you are up stairs pipeing the boiler and your mate who is a plumber is down stairs running a 3/4" pipe or even 1" pipe which then I could connect it to the boiler and then to the meter and test then put floors back down and test again.
Is this still incorrect kirk gas ? you seem to know a lot on regs or should one of us actually phone gas safe and find out the whole truth on this.
I think nearly every one on here who does a lot of heating will at some time allowed a plumber or heating engineer to do this especially if they are busy hanging boiler.
Also how can a apprentice learn gas if the regs are saying he cant touch the gas train? does this mean I broke the rules when my trades man had me doing the gas tightness before and at the end of every job?[/QU

i have underlined 2 different bits, the first one is against the regs if an unregistered guy fits a pipe on the same job as the gas engineer later connects it, (you say there are loads of guys doing this, i would agree but it doesnt make it right) if i choose to do this i trust my plumber mate that is my choice,
the second point i highlighted is different, as an apprentice should be supervised, i appreciate, as i have been an apprentice and have subsequently trained quite a few, that there are times an apprentice is left alone, thats life and business, but while doing gas work the apprentice MUST be fully supervised, to ensure when the tradesman connectss it he can confirm the pipes and fittings have been fitted properly,
i can't discuss whether your tradesman was right or wrong to yet you do do tightness tests as an apprentice until you tell me whether you were fully supervised on a one to one basis.

the point you make about a 2 man heating team is different from checking someones work who you dont know or can be sure what the quality is (not in the eyes of the regs, but we all know real life is different) IF a 2 man team choose to work together to fit a full heating system with the gas guy signing it off, who will get investigated if there was a problem? one way round this is for the gas guy to say he was supervising the plumber doing the gas, but the reality is nobody cares who does what until there is a prob, so if there was a prob the gas guy will lie and say he supervised, but will take the rap as the pipe has a problem and he connected/tested it

 

[plumbster3456]

kirkgas yes of course i am only talking about someone who works with me every day , he is fully qualified and time served plumber. I dont sign off other peoples work as I do not know what there work is like and also the way I look at it if every gas engineer did not sign off unregistered engineers work then there would be more work for me who is registered as home owners would have to contact registered gas engineers if they wanted install signed off.
And your answer to the bit about did my trades man supervise me well he was there but half the time he never even checked the u gauge himself to make sure if i said it was tight that it actually was. to be honest the guy was lazy he had me doing most of the work including running the 22mm pipe that would be used for gas but this has made me a better tradesman as I learned a lot this way I was pipeing boilers in second year under his supervision obviously and well he was sitting down drinking tea

 

[fuzzy]

you can work on gas as a trainee if under direct supervision.

The main reason for monitoring closely signing off of un qaulified gas work is the plumber who does the full job and pays somebody to do the paperwork, thats whats wrong, not a trainee doing ssome copper in front of you

 

[kirkgas]

kirkgas yes of course i am only talking about someone who works with me every day , he is fully qualified and time served plumber.

The bottom line is that this practice is against the regs, as he is unqualified and you are "lying" signing it off as your own work, but at the end of the day it is your choice and as i have said many times there will only be a problem with you doing this when there is a problem with the work, if nothing happens then nobody will know you have done it, if you trust his work and want to take a chance then that is fine, i appreciate that many people will agree with you and do the same just to get the job done quicker

 

[Reg Man]

You supervise the trainee. if it goes txxxs uup you take the wrap.

 

[tamz]

The bottom line is that this practice is against the regs, as he is unqualified and you are "lying" signing it off as your own work, but at the end of the day it is your choice and as i have said many times there will only be a problem with you doing this when there is a problem with the work, if nothing happens then nobody will know you have done it, if you trust his work and want to take a chance then that is fine, i appreciate that many people will agree with you and do the same just to get the job done quicker

Come on Kirk. In the real world this happens all the time. What about the big mobs (like the red vans with a pylon on the side) who have maybe one ticketed guy for every 20 or more fitters. The one with the ticket goes around commisioning and signing off and has never seen any work in progress. Might not be 100% by the rules but it happens every day with the knowledge of the "authorities"

 

[Reg Man]

well said Tamz. Rules are rules. only have too answer to them when your up to your bum,like I am with the missies most days.

 

[tamz]

like I am with the missies most days.

Must be related to mine then