Is it feasible to go (mostly) tankless electric only?

[The Flounder]

Hello everyone. I've recently bought an old house with no gas, no central heating and a knackered old electric immersion tank. I'm trying to work out the most sensible way to plumb it for hot water needs. Bit overwhelmed.

Background: the house has no gas and no central heating. All heating is from plug-in bar heaters. The showers are electric. Hot water (serving the taps and the bath) comes from an old electric immersion tank. All plumbing and electrics need redoing. The house has three bathrooms, two baths, and one standard size kitchen sink. Its level of occupancy varies - sometimes it's just me, and sometimes it's four of us using the water at once in the morning and heating the whole house.

It seems wasteful to heat hot water in an immersion tank, which is then only used for washing hands, washing up and occasionally running a bath in the winter.

Would it be feasible to:
(i) put in-line instantaneous water heaters under each bathroom sink,
(ii) put a small (say, 15L) immersion tank beneath the kitchen sink and have that running all year for washing up,
(iii) use electric showers,
(iv) have an immersion tank which only serves the baths and which is only turned on in winter when we will want baths, and
(v) use electric or an air to air heat pump for room-by-room heating.

Or should I invest in a heat pump and a full wet system, and use the heat pump to provide all water for all showers, baths, hand-washing, etc.?

I'm getting a bit overwhelmed. Any advice?

 

[SimonG]

Old house, poorly insulated not easily improved.
What's incoming water pressures and flow?
What's incoming electric supply I.e. amperage?

Loads of options to look at.

 

[Murdoch]

Given the cost to heat a home using electricity is about 3 times that of gas, your primary first goal has to be investment in insulation.

is ground source heat pump an option?
is adding solar an option? With a diverter for the immersion

hope you’ve got deep pockets as your bills are going to be very high

 

[Knappers]

Hi, all separate heat sources is feasible but the long term cost inc running and maintenance would be considerable and you'd probably be sacrificing a fair bit of function when compared to a decent cylinder.
[The following is purely just my opinion]
Renewables are worth considering (heat pumps/solar etc) but initial costs are huge and the infrastructure is still in development.
I think the best way to go is a good hot water cylinder, maybe future proofed with high gain dual coils, or a thermal store if you might consider a solid fuel back-burner down the line.
Rads up to current spec for low temp heating.
I would power with an LPG boiler (Coz oil smells and is dirty) with a mind to convert to heatpump or similar in about 10years when the market is well established.

 

[The Flounder]

Thanks everyone. Further background: it's a city-centre Victorian mid-terrace, in a conservation area and smoke control zone, with a small garden.

1. Insulation is definitely a priority and is on the list of non-negotiables during the refit. I've already planned internal insulation at the front and external at the back, together with new windows (bye bye single glazing), roof and underfloor insulation.

2. Ground source heat isn't viable, as the garden is too small for a horizontal insulation and the geology isn't favourable to deep drilling (from what I've researched). Solar isn't viable either, as it's in a conservation area and there's already a dormer on the only permitted (north-facing) roof.

3. I don't know the flow rate or the total amperage. Is there any way that I, as a layman, could check that? Water and electric are both standard city-centre mains supplies.

Whatever I do now, I don't mind replacing parts of the system as technology improves, but I don't really want to be installing entirely new M&E which will may totally redundant (e.g. radiators, if I don't need them), or failing to install M&E which I will later need to install (e.g. radiators, if it turns out I need to swap to a wet system later). I'm gutting the place so I get one shot at making a mess now!

Is there a good guide on a good way to go right now? Seems like the heat pump tech isn't really there yet and everyone is still just using gas because it's cheaper. What is the vast majority of the population going to do when gas boilers are discontinued in a decade?

 

[Knappers]

They're not being discontinued thats just for new builds.
Wet is 100% the way to go! New regs require radiators are sized to be appropriate for conversion to heat pumps later on so the only thing to consider with the main installation is what kind of HW storage to have and where to put the boiler (gas or oil).
You'll want to consider space required for possible heat pump down the line.
Especially if solar isn't an option, you need to just forget about electric!

 

[gmartine]

Heat pump tech is there now, you just need a good installer and the insulation needs to be up to scratch. If you had a gas supply I'd say fine covert later but as you don't I'd jump straight in if finances allow.

 

[Knappers]

Heat pump tech is there now, you just need a good installer and the insulation needs to be up to scratch. If you had a gas supply I'd say fine covert later but as you don't I'd jump straight in if finances allow.

Technology is definitely there but I don't think service network, regulation or market competition is anywhere near where it needs to and will be in 10 years.
All things considered, I would go gas but that being said a well designed and installed system with some grant assistance is very much a viable option.

 

[Knappers]

These things often tend to circle around cost, installation vs running cost and altho that's a priority it's important to remember the main reason we have these systems atall is for comfort.
Who really knows if we'll even be reccomending heatpumps in 10 years and what happens to the sparce service network if something new takes over?

 

[nicam49]

You say there's no gas..... You mean to the house or the area? If the latter, then invest in a Stanley oil-fired (kerosene) stove it's like an Aga and provides cooking, heating and hot water.
If there's gas to the area then pay to have it installed to the house!