Neighbours boiler Flue into back garden

[Jonsey67]

My neighbour is re-siting their boiler and wants to have the flue coming into my garden at loft level. I asked them to check into building regs and then 2 days later, they have fitters on site doing the work. The work has now stopped, neighbour not happy.

The boiler is non condensing and is 9 years old. The flue would be coming out about 6 metres above the garden but over the boundary line. The flue would also be about 6 metres from my back windows on a diagonal line.

Spoke to local council. Document J not the issue, as the flue would not be nuissance, although the probably could not site a condensing boiler flue in the same position. They also queried whether the boiler should be changed to a condensing one, if it was being re-sited.

I am concerned that if I gave them permission for the flue to tresspass my boundary, this could cause me problems.

Am I being unreasonable ? They have already spent £1000's on other works and leave it 2 days before the work, realising they can't have a vertical flue through the roof on the current boiler. They have to change the boiler if I refuse the tresspass.

I also wonder whether they have been totally honest with me. They have discussed this with fitters, who must have told them the score, but they tried to blag it with me. One of the neighbours has worked in the building trade for years, with an established local company.

 

[Gray0689]

There is no problem you should do the decent thing let them do it

 

[washer]

There is no problem at all.

In the unlikely event of fumes entering your property through your window, the boiler would be cut off.

 

[Jonsey67]

There is no problem you should do the decent thing let them do it

Even when they have lied to me. They have been planning this for awhile now and only spoke to me 2 days before.

I think they knew about not being to have a vertical flue through the roof. If they had not lied and explained the situation, I might have accepted, subject to certain conditions being made in writing.

 

[washer]

Personnally I dont see what your problem is, the terminal is 6 metres up.

It''s probably a waste of time complaining on a site, where i guess a majority of people on here are installers.

 

[diesel_ltd]

There is no problem at all.

In the unlikely event of fumes entering your property through your window, the boiler would be cut off.[/QUOT

washer please explain i'm all ears

 

[dontknowitall]

I'd beg to differ. There's probably no problem now but when it comes to selling the solicitors won't be very happy and you might have a hefty sized issue over this. I'd stick to your guns. It's your house and your home (and castle).

 

[diesel_ltd]

with regards to the siting of the boiler you prob wounldnt even notice the flue and if its 6m from your window theres no chance of it entring your house via that window.

at the end of the day are you not agreeing to the siting of the boiler because of safty concerns or is it personal concerns??

(with respect)

 

[Jonsey67]

I didn't quite understand that one either about the fumes entering my house from the neighbours. Only if you have a carbon monxide detector, linked to your own boiler.

I realise this is a plumbers site, but there must be some honest ones out there. When I had my boiler installed, they gave me full information about all the issues and came back prior to the install to carry out a further inspection to make sure the installation was going to be correct. No last minute problems.

 

[diesel_ltd]

if you ever or a buyer of your house ever wanted to do a loft conversion would there be problems on siting windows air vent etc??

 

[Jonsey67]

I was tempted to give permission for the tresspass, subject to conditions in writing from them. This would be an agreement that they would move the flue, if at anytime any owner of my property disputed the siting of the flue and that they must ensure that they and any future owner of their property agrees to this. They would the have to add this condition to any contract for buyers to agree to.

 

[Jonsey67]

if you ever or a buyer of your house ever wanted to do a loft conversion would there be problems on siting windows air vent etc??

My house is not directly next to their actual house, but is on a diagonal. Before I would get any work done, I would have it thoroughly checked, with all the necessary consents in place. I would give the neighbour all information and the time to think about any issues.

 

[dontknowitall]

This is more like solicitor stuff rather than pipeworking operatives ...

 

[Jonsey67]

This is more like solicitor stuff rather than pipeworking operatives ...

yes, I did wonder, but I have seen other posts to this site of a similar nature, but this was awhile ago.

 

[Gray0689]

I was tempted to give permission for the tresspass, subject to conditions in writing from them. This would be an agreement that they would move the flue, if at anytime any owner of my property disputed the siting of the flue and that they must ensure that they and any future owner of their property agrees to this. They would the have to add this condition to any contract for buyers to agree to.

I can't see how it's tresspass if it's 6 metres from your house

 

[Toddyplumb]

I think you are correct to ask the question and in my opinion you are correct to object . I would not dream of installing a flue into someone elses garden no matter how high.
If they have spent £1000s surely they can get a vertical flue kit (If still available) Or a new boiler , they are already paying the labour cost .
Next they will be discharging the safety valve into your garden !

 

[Jonsey67]

I can't see how it's tresspass if it's 6 metres from your house

It actually is because of the way the houses are situated. They had an extension added along side the garden boundary line. So when adding the flue, it will overhang the garden.

I really am only making this such an issue, because they lied to me. They knew the facts and did not tell me the real story.

The local building control person I spoke to, was of the same opinion. Any flue overhanging a neighbour property, must not be a nuissance (which it won't), but must be subject to consent of the neighbour. No consent = tresspass. Had they actually asked me, subject to some reassurance in writing, I would not have made a fuss.

They would have had the fitter in my garden tidying up the flue work, without my permission. Just not very neighbourly.

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

well the regs are quite clear flues cannot discharge on to a neighbouring property why dont you ring gas-safe for guidance

 

[Jonsey67]

So it is ok for people to lie to their neighbours? You would let your neighbours just go ahead with this and access your garden, without even asking your permission. They did not even tell me that they had already asked for the work to be done. They simply asked me about about the flue and I said they would need to check first and come back. They just went ahead anyway.

So I don't really think I am being unreasonable in expecting good manners. I have always been courteous with them. I have frequently taken in deliveries to my house, when they have not been in.

 

[moony]

jonesy if the flue is coming onto your garden or over then i would say a definate no - there are ways they can get around this - i dont think you sound unreasonable - and things like this can effect future plans for your house and if its as close as your making out it will be against regs.

your not a neighbour from hell imo - i would be the same if it was my house - it could effect a future sale or extension possibilities - they have a house with four sides and a roof they will have a way to route the flue which will not upset you.

stick to your guns pal.

 

[Jonsey67]

well the regs are quite clear flues cannot discharge on to a neighbouring property why dont you ring gas-safe for guidance

Do you know which regs, so I know what I am discussing with them.

The company they were using, are known to be cheap, as they offer a 'no fuss' service. I asked them to check the regs and they said they didn't have the information. Had they come back with the details which I could see for myself, I would have said ok, but made sure I had something in writing and from the neighbour, just to cover my back.

Not being funny, but as gas installers, if a neighbour raises a question about the compliance of an installation affecting them, as flue over garden, why didn't they bother to try to resolve this situation for their client (my neighbour). They left the boiler in the new position, without being able to put the flue throught the wall. That is what I call a cr*p service.

 

[easyt]

To be honest I do not see why a neighbours flue should trespass onto my plot. When my neighbour had work done I offered to store his caravan and also was content for scaffolding to be erected on my side of the boundary to make works easier. I wouldn't want his flue though.

 

[Jonsey67]

They live in a semi with an extension. If they need a horizontal flue for the current boiler, they need to have it exiting the end wall, over my garden. I think they already knew this, but they just assumed I would be ok about it, without asking. To have a vertical flue,exiting through the roof, they need to change the boiler.

I would have thought that unless the boiler ( 9 years old) was not a common make, that there would be an adapter to have a vertical flue added ? The local building control officer thought that they should be having a condenser boiler anyway?

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

i cant quote the exact reg from memory ,but just ring gas safe and explain the situation i would not except a flue on my property

 

[Jonsey67]

I really don't want to be a pain. But they have caused the problem. I think as I said earlier, had they given me the full true story, I would have said ok, subject to confirmation in writing that the flue was in line with regs and that I could look to them, plus future owners of their property to move the flue at their cost. It is purely about safeguarding against future issues, as I did tell them 2 days ago, when they asked my opinion and not for my consent.

It is not my intention to make this difficult. I would rather not have this, but they should not take neighbours for granted like this, just expecting them not to mind. If I had an extension and my flue was over in their garden from a height, I am sure that they would have felt the same way. I would never have done such a thing, without asking them and making sure all was correctly done.

 

[stevetheplumber]

typical builders earn thousands out of the extention but move the existing boiler which is nine years old so the plumber gets as little as possible from the job
personaly i wouldnt contemplate moving a boiler that old

 

[Jonsey67]

They have already spent the money on Kitchen furniture to go where the boiler was.

So they want everything all ok for them and s*d the neighbour. They should have factored in the cost of the new boiler, taking into consideration that the existing boiler could not be fitted elsewhere without needing horizontal flue over neighbours garden. I am sure they must have checked with an installer whether the boiler could have had a vertical flue fitted through the roof. The silly thing is that when I had a new boiler fitted, the neighbour commented about the fact they probably could not have flue fitted over my garden. This was a few years ago, so they must have checked. So why 2 days before they mentioned about work for re-fitting the boiler and me saying I am not sure they can, so they must check, do they just go ahead as already planned. I think they just thought I would not have a problem. That they could do what they like. I even told them that if they went ahead with permission, I would need to make sure I was legally protected against future issue with this, as I was thinking of selling.

 

[Jonsey67]

Techincal bulletin no 16 from Gas Safe Register 1st April 2009, applies apparently. So if this is the case that the TB is current, why would Gas Safe Registered people be willing to overlook this. I realise there are a lot of rules and it can be confusing, but when a client asks for work to be done, shouldn't they check first? It would have saved a lot of upset and unnecessary hassle. If the neighbour had been advised, they would have had to allow for this when budgeting for the works. Why should I be dragged into a dispute that they should be having with their chosen installer.


"Terminal Requirements
The primary legislation concerning the safe installation, maintenance and use of gas systems and appliances, (eg in GB-the gas safety (installation and use) regulations (GRIUR)) in particular regualtion 27(5) states: "No person shall install a flue other than in a safe position." Guidance Note 182 of the Approved Code Of Practice and Guidance to the GB GRIUR then states:

"A flue(including any terminal) should be installed in a position which ensures that it will operate effectively and that products of combustion will safely disperse and not present a hazard to any person, whether in the premises in which the associated appliance is installed (eg by being located a safe distance from vents and open-able windows), or in adjoining/neighbouring premises. The location needs to take into account any possible developments in neighbouring property, eg building extensions. Any flue should therefore be sited so as to discharge at a safe distance from any boundary with adjoining premises; references should be made to requirements in Building Regulations and appropriate standards, as applicable."

 

[Gray0689]

Techincal bulletin no 16 from Gas Safe Register 1st April 2009, applies apparently. So if this is the case that the TB is current, why would Gas Safe Registered people be willing to overlook this. I realise there are a lot of rules and it can be confusing, but when a client asks for work to be done, shouldn't they check first? It would have saved a lot of upset and unnecessary hassle. If the neighbour had been advised, they would have had to allow for this when budgeting for the works. Why should I be dragged into a dispute that they should be having with their chosen installer.


"Terminal Requirements
The primary legislation concerning the safe installation, maintenance and use of gas systems and appliances, (eg in GB-the gas safety (installation and use) regulations (GRIUR)) in particular regualtion 27(5) states: "No person shall install a flue other than in a safe position." Guidance Note 182 of the Approved Code Of Practice and Guidance to the GB GRIUR then states:

"A flue(including any terminal) should be installed in a position which ensures that it will operate effectively and that products of combustion will safely disperse and not present a hazard to any person, whether in the premises in which the associated appliance is installed (eg by being located a safe distance from vents and open-able windows), or in adjoining/neighbouring premises. The location needs to take into account any possible developments in neighbouring property, eg building extensions. Any flue should therefore be sited so as to discharge at a safe distance from any boundary with adjoining premises; references should be made to requirements in Building Regulations and appropriate standards, as applicable."

And 6 metres away is more than adaquate
Your the one who seems to be couseing the problems

 

[Jonsey67]

Gray

I think the balance of opinion is that if the flue is to be over the boundary, that they should have asked for my consent. Not tell me lies, as part of vague consultation with me and then to go ahead with the work as planned, without my consent.

I allowed them several years ago to use my garden to assist them when they were building the bl**dy extension that is on the boundary and I often take in parcels for them.

I have been a good neighbour and now they repay me, by trying to pull a fast one. I only asked them to check the various regs for compliance. Had they come back with the details and reassured me in writing they they would move the flue on request at any time, I would have hapilly consented. This what being a good neighbour is about. They tell you the truth, ask nicely and give me the chance to make any reasonable request. Not just go ahead with the work, without consent.

 

[washer]

Getting a bit silly mate, you have already stated that you havent got a problem with flue, your problem is that they lied to you.

Therefore refuse to let the flue terminate over your boundary, they cannot install the boiler, therefore you win, job done.

Last post on this thread for me.

 

[fuzzy]

are you sure its non condensing??? a new boiler???

 

[fuzzy]

im unsure why its not a condensing boiler if new install, particulalrly when youve been talken to building reg people

 

[Jonsey67]

im unsure why its not a condensing boiler if new install, particulalrly when youve been talken to building reg people

I wasn't going to post again.

But to answer the q, the boiler is non condensing. It is re-siting of the current boiler. The building reg bod at the local council said they thought the boiler might need replacing, but it would depend on the what the current boiler was. The GSR installers, would I expect have some reference book to refer to, to inform them. But I a not sure whether the work to re-site the boiler would have been registered.

 

[GPSNewcastle]

Personally I wouldnt agree to it, not for safety reasons etc as it is perfectly safe from what you have described but purely because of the issue with regards to selling your property in the future. Under the regs they shouldnt be terminating a flue in your property so anyone who buys your property in the future is fully within their rights to ask for it to be removed. The last thing you want is a bone of contention with future prospective buyers. From the sounds of it you dont want to allow it anyway. As an impartial observer I would say that the neighbour is making a reasonable request (although it could have been more timely) but it is also reasonable for you to object and personally (for the reasons mentioned above) I would.

 

[moony]

jonesy end of day its your house mate - not greys not anyone elses - you know your situation and now you have the regs - i personally wouldnt let any flue exit over any of my property and i wouldnt install it that way either or ask for it too. I dont think your a neighbour from hell and totally understand your view point - its up to you at the end of the day. even if it was a middle terrace then they would still have 2 sides and a roof to find some place to site the boiler - surely they can sort this out.

 

[moony]

im unsure why its not a condensing boiler if new install, particulalrly when youve been talken to building reg people

its not new - its just a relocation of the boiler.

 

[tamz]

TB 16 that you are referring to is regards condensing boilers.
Prior to around 2004 you could stick a flue anywhere but the rules have changed and permission is now required but it is not a gas reg it is a building reg so speak to the BC officer.
Remember while you are there to complain about any gutters that may also be overhanging as it is an almost certainty that one day they will leak water onto your land or worse have to be replaced.
Like Gray, thank god i don't live in London. We have better things to fall out about up here

 

[Jonsey67]

It is not london, but a modern housing estate elsewhere. I think when planning is done and additional consent is given to extensions, sometimes future boundary issues are overlooked (pardon the pun).

I probably came over as a bit angry the other day, which I was. Calmed down now. It was just that the neighbour assumed I would not mind the flue over the boundary and was going ahead with the work, even though I raised concerns 2 days earlier when they 'consulted' me . I did ask them to check the various regs to make sure ok and expected them to come back to me. I had not expected that I should have to look into the various regs, on the day they had the work planned for.

Anyway, I think they are now having another boiler with the flue through the roof.

Out of this I would say the learnings are.

If you are planning work near the boundary, which is not urgent, make sure you give the neighbour plenty of notice and ask them for their consent, if anything is to come over the boundary. The neighbour might want to check for themselves about any issues, before they offer their consent. Also as the home owner planning the work, it might be a good idea to also check for yourselves. All it would have taken were a few phone calls e.g. Gas Safe helpline, local council building consent people.

Leaving it just 2 days before the actual work is to take place, to just consult the neighbour and then to go ahead with the work even after they had raised concerns is not a good idea. The various regs are just too complicated to leave it until the last minute.

I would have thought that when existing boilers were re-sited, that the GSR person doing the work, would have made sure that all the regs were complied with and any consents were obtained before they did the work. I don't think I would conduct work, putting something over a boundary, if I could be called back later to do more work for free, if there was a dispute later.

 

[peteheat]

It is not london, but a modern housing estate elsewhere. I think when planning is done and additional consent is given to extensions, sometimes future boundary issues are overlooked (pardon the pun).

I probably came over as a bit angry the other day, which I was. Calmed down now. It was just that the neighbour assumed I would not mind the flue over the boundary and was going ahead with the work, even though I raised concerns 2 days earlier when they 'consulted' me . I did ask them to check the various regs to make sure ok and expected them to come back to me. I had not expected that I should have to look into the various regs, on the day they had the work planned for.

Anyway, I think they are now having another boiler with the flue through the roof.

Out of this I would say the learnings are.

If you are planning work near the boundary, which is not urgent, make sure you give the neighbour plenty of notice and ask them for their consent, if anything is to come over the boundary. The neighbour might want to check for themselves about any issues, before they offer their consent. Also as the home owner planning the work, it might be a good idea to also check for yourselves. All it would have taken were a few phone calls e.g. Gas Safe helpline, local council building consent people.

Leaving it just 2 days before the actual work is to take place, to just consult the neighbour and then to go ahead with the work even after they had raised concerns is not a good idea. The various regs are just too complicated to leave it until the last minute.

I would have thought that when existing boilers were re-sited, that the GSR person doing the work, would have made sure that all the regs were complied with and any consents were obtained before they did the work. I don't think I would conduct work, putting something over a boundary, if I could be called back later to do more work for free, if there was a dispute later.

The GSR would not have to move the boiler as he / she would be working under the clients instructions, personally I would want the instruction in writing but thats me.

It is possible your neighbour was not aware their existing boiler was not suitable and may have been advised of the need to replace it just before consulting with you because many builders would not know the difference between different boiler models.

As you have to live beside the people for at least the foreseeable future I suggest you give them the benefit of the doubt as none of us are mind readers, it would be sad to lose a good neighbor (both parties) over a misunderstanding.

 

[Mike Jackson]

They've probably moved by now. This thread is over two years old!

 

[peteheat]

They've probably moved by now. This thread is over two years old!

LOL Time for better specs when I can't see the date