NCS - filling loop and electric cable, condensate discharge pipe?

[bassmonster]

I've not seen this type of filing loop? is it an old type thingy or some form of improvisation?
also, the electric power cable seems to have a dodgy connection and is going behind the pipes...is this ok as i would personally never do that as it's next to pipes that become very very hot..

oh, and the condensate trap discharge pipe is what seems to be like from a washing machine

thank you.

(i'm working towards my ACS)

 

[IDCHAPPY]

The terminal strip is a shocker.... The quick fill looks ok as I presume the longer of the valves has a built in check valve.
Wire looks to be too close to the gas pipe(should be 25 mm +).
Where's the safety valve pipework?

 

[IDCHAPPY]

That 15mm going into 22 mm must be it? Sheessh

 

[bassmonster]

What's a safety valve pipework?
Which If any unsafe situation would the wire be classified as?

 

[IDCHAPPY]

I'd class the cable as NCS, but the terminal strip is shocking, should be wired properly or hidden in a junction box.
The safety valve pipework may also be known as the pressure relief valve pipework or safety blow off?

 

[IDCHAPPY]

If the condensate hose is not the manufacturers proper hose then that's another score against it.

 

[Meady]

What boiler is it, as it looks a bit like a potterton.

 

[bassmonster]

the boiler is a Baxi combi 105he. these were discontinued back in 2007.

so if the wiring is NCS and the condensate trap too, does that mean it would equate to AR?

 

[beesley121]

the boiler is a Baxi combi 105he. these were discontinued back in 2007.

so if the wiring is NCS and the condensate trap too, does that mean it would equate to AR?

No - Ncs no matter how many are just ncs

been a few years but 2 AR's on a open flued appliance is upgraded to id, that's the only time you 'add' them together to go to the next level. Somone please correct me if I'm wrong ;-(

 

[kirkgas]

No - Ncs no matter how many are just ncs

been a few years but 2 AR's on a open flued appliance is upgraded to id, that's the only time you 'add' them together to go to the next level. Some please correct me if I'm wrong ;-(

You are correct

 

[beesley121]

You are correct

So I can tell my customers i do know what I'm doing, honest

 

[galaxy_plumbing]

write all your ncs down on your cp12 or whatever so dirty landlord knows

 

[phil the bucket]

There's no way I would walk out the door and leave that cable like that it would take 10 min to run a new cable from the spur back to the boiler
If the landlord agree to it of course otherwise I would id the boiler

 

[AWheating]

can you classify something external from the boiler and its parts under the unsafe sitituations proceedure? or does it come under another part some other regulations

 

[kirkgas]

So I can tell my customers i do know what I'm doing, honest

That's pushing it, maybe you were lucky this time ;-)

 

[GrahamM]

No - Ncs no matter how many are just ncs

been a few years but 2 AR's on a open flued appliance is upgraded to id, that's the only time you 'add' them together to go to the next level. Somone please correct me if I'm wrong ;-(

You are incorrect.
Two or more NCS's relating to open flued appliance flue & ventilation may be upgraded to AR if you deem them serious enough. It is at your discretion.

 

[GrahamM]

There's no way I would walk out the door and leave that cable like that it would take 10 min to run a new cable from the spur back to the boiler
If the landlord agree to it of course otherwise I would id the boiler

Why would you ID this?

 

[phil the bucket]

Would u leave a live cable exposed like that cause I wouldn't it's up to u at the end of the day .

 

[Millsy 82]

You are incorrect.
Two or more NCS's relating to open flued appliance flue & ventilation may be upgraded to AR if you deem them serious enough. It is at your discretion.

I was always told 2 ncs on either flueing or ventilation would make it AR nothing about just on open flued.

 

[Millsy 82]

Would u leave a live cable exposed like that cause I wouldn't it's up to u at the end of the day .

You advise the responsible person that there is an electrical fault that needs to be addressed urgently and put it on your paperwork. Its not a gas fault so you cant use gas unsafe procedures to turn off the boiler. If you are an electrician as well I would imagine you could through electrical regs.

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

anybody notice the weird looking joints on the flow and the gas? no way are they 22mm sockets

 

[GrahamM]

Would u leave a live cable exposed like that cause I wouldn't it's up to u at the end of the day .

Bit of insulating tape round the connector block........never an ID situation!!!!

 

[phil the bucket]

You advise the responsible person that there is an electrical fault that needs to be addressed urgently and put it on your paperwork. Its not a gas fault so you cant use gas unsafe procedures to turn off the boiler. If you are an electrician as well I would imagine you could through electrical regs.

Like I said its up to the person what u do
To be honest I would just put it right for the sake of a bit of cable before I left take 5 10 min and a clear conscience to boot

 

[GrahamM]

I was always told 2 ncs on either flueing or ventilation would make it AR nothing about just on open flued.

Are you going to AR a room sealed appliance for flue term too long, not sealed round wall and no terminal guard?
Unless anything has changed in 4 years from my last ACS applies to open flue flue and vent issues only.

 

[Millsy 82]

Are you going to AR a room sealed appliance for flue term too long, not sealed round wall and no terminal guard?
Unless anything has changed in 4 years from my last ACS applies to open flue flue and vent issues only.

It is still at your discretion. I resat mine 2 years ago and I spoke to the gas safe bloke about it as my thing was no terminal guard and flue hole not sealed so how can I AR that and thats when he said about your discretion.

 

[GrahamM]

It is still at your discretion. I resat mine 2 years ago and I spoke to the gas safe bloke about it as my thing was no terminal guard and flue hole not sealed so how can I AR that and thats when he said about your discretion.

I would be AR'ing every other boiler if this applied to room sealed.
The discretionary multi NCS elevated to AR applies to open flue only as a number of flue & vent NCS's may amount to something more dangerous.
If I am incorrect I really need to back to basics.

 

[phil the bucket]

Bit of insulating tape round the connector block........never an ID situation!!!!

Really !!!!!!!

 

[Millsy 82]

I would be AR'ing every other boiler if this applied to room sealed.
The discretionary multi NCS elevated to AR applies to open flue only as a number of flue & vent NCS's may amount to something more dangerous.
If I am incorrect I really need to back to basics.

Seems I was wrong just double checked.

 

[GrahamM]

Seems I was wrong just double checked.

You really had me starting to doubt myself for a second.:wink5:

 

[thompsonbrown]

Really !!!!!!!

The flow, hot and gas pipes look like a flaring tool was used (real old school) Just like that danfoss clock.

 

[phil the bucket]

The flow, hot and gas pipes look like a flaring tool was used (real old school) Just like that danfoss clock.

Defo minimum effort on the install
He was prob on a tight price lol

 

[Millsy 82]

You really had me starting to doubt myself for a second.:wink5:

I might have to change my training center and get my gas safe inspector sacked as both of them have told me that 2 ncs make an AR (With discretion)

Although if you came across a room sealed flue terminal which was too close to an internal corner and too close to an opening. The day you test it and do a room CO its a still day and has no problem passes all tests, You know that with even the slightest wind in the correct direction that it will fail badly but on that day it passes that then would have to be 2x NCS would be a pass? To me it should be any flue as all boilers have the potential to kill if installed incorrectly or in a bad state.

 

[kirkgas]

I might have to change my training center and get my gas safe inspector sacked as both of them have told me that 2 ncs make an AR (With discretion)

Although if you came across a room sealed flue terminal which was too close to an internal corner and too close to an opening. The day you test it and do a room CO its a still day and has no problem passes all tests, You know that with even the slightest wind in the correct direction that it will fail badly but on that day it passes that then would have to be 2x NCS would be a pass? To me it should be any flue as all boilers have the potential to kill if installed incorrectly or in a bad state.

Haha don't sack anyone, listen and understand the regs, there has never been a directive to count two or more NCS on a RS appliance as AR, NEVER
it has only ever applied to OF appliances where the NCS are linked/related, the best example being a vent fault and a flue fault
Conversely if you have an OF boiler with a vent fault and a 13amp fuse in the spur don't make the boiler AR because the NCS's aren't going to affect the way the other one performs

 

[kirkgas]

I was always told 2 ncs on either flueing or ventilation would make it AR nothing about just on open flued.

Have a look through the IUP

 

[kirkgas]

I was always told 2 ncs on either flueing or ventilation would make it AR nothing about just on open flued.

So a RS boiler with a clip missing from a flue extension and and undersized compartment vent would make this RS boiler AR

 

[Millsy 82]

So a RS boiler with a clip missing from a flue extension and and undersized compartment vent would make this RS boiler AR

I have already pointed out that I was wrong in an earlier post.

I have always used discretion and explained what needs doing not necessarily AR a boiler if it doesn't deserve it.

When I did my course last the blokes quote was " if there's no terminal guard then you only need to find 1 more NCS then it is AR" (might not be word for word but that was pretty much what he was on about) how many open flued appliances need terminal guards? So he was obviously on about room sealed appliances as well.

I have checked the unsafe procedures which was why I said I was wrong.

 

[beesley121]

I have already pointed out that I was wrong in an earlier post.

I have always used discretion and explained what needs doing not necessarily AR a boiler if it doesn't deserve it.

When I did my course last the blokes quote was " if there's no terminal guard then you only need to find 1 more NCS then it is AR" (might not be word for word but that was pretty much what he was on about) how many open flued appliances need terminal guards? So he was obviously on about room sealed appliances as well.

I have checked the unsafe procedures which was why I said I was wrong.

always said gas was a bit of a minefield.

i always thought no terminal guard on rs boiler would be AR alone, same for flue not sealed in
to outside brickwork

 

[Reg Man]

You cannot classify Electrical defects as NCS, AR or ID. They are all Coded faults 1 being the most dangerous 5 being less severe. On Gas 2 AR's is AR. ID is ID, 2 NCS's can be lifted to AR depending on engineering judgement, as Kirk has said.

 

[GrahamM]

You cannot classify Electrical defects as NCS, AR or ID. They are all Coded faults 1 being the most dangerous 5 being less severe. On Gas 2 AR's is AR. ID is ID, 2 NCS's can be lifted to AR depending on engineering judgement, as Kirk has said.

I said it first!:smug2:
And applies to open open flue only in case anymore confusion.

 

[GrahamM]

While we are talking about electrical issues with gas.
A boiler with no earth is potentially dangerous and BG/SG would classify it as AR.
Any input?

 

[Nostrum]

A boiler with no earth wouldn't work in most cases these days!

 

[Reg Man]

While we are talking about electrical issues with gas.
A boiler with no earth is potentially dangerous and BG/SG would classify it as AR.
Any input?

A code 2 fault then under the electrical regulations for a potential danger.

 

[bassmonster]

Here's another photo from the same property...what would you classify the overflow and pressure relief pipe as? i'm thinking the pressure relief should be AR as that can cause scolding if a person was to walk past?

 

[bassmonster]

^ anyone?

 

[kirkgas]

Not as per MI, or contravention of building regs ( if we look in there it will describe how plumbing needs to be fitted safely etc) NCS, AR & ID are gas classifications, only BG have decided in their wisdom to attach these classifications to plumbing issues

 

[lame plumber]

Not as per MI, or contravention of building regs ( if we look in there it will describe how plumbing needs to be fitted safely etc) NCS, AR & ID are gas classifications, only BG have decided in their wisdom to attach these classifications to plumbing issues

Seems at last someone knows his regs

 

[bewsh]

PRV not terminating correctly is NCS, isn't that in the regs?

 

[bewsh]

Also, if the joints are flared on the gas pipe, isn't that ID?

 

[Ermintrude]

Not as per MI, or contravention of building regs ( if we look in there it will describe how plumbing needs to be fitted safely etc) NCS, AR & ID are gas classifications, only BG have decided in their wisdom to attach these classifications to plumbing issues

I would say it's ncs as you haven't installed it to the MI and installing an appliance to the MI a requirement of GSIUR !

 

[Ermintrude]

Also, if the joints are flared on the gas pipe, isn't that ID?

Yep pipe work installed with in appropriate material. GSIUR 5.0 BS6891