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eimaj12000

Hi,


Hopefully someone can offer some advice. Recently we had a new Combi Boiler fitted (a Worcester Greenstar 28 Condensor Boiler). The engineer decided it was best to install the condensate pipe under the floor to prevent freezing.


A couple of days after the install we left for a short break before Christmas. We've been back 3-4 days and now there is a Sulphur smell from the upstairs bathroom which appears to be coming from the taps ? The smell has been getting worse. Initially thinking it was just a general pipe problem with our plumbing, I tried cleaning all the u-bends etc. which hasn't helped. The strange thing is that it doesn't just seem to be a smell. If I run hot water from the bath and dip say a sponge into it and then smell the spong the sulphur-type smell is overpowering so it seems as though it's somehow in the water ?



Anyway, after asking around and some googling (as well as plain logic), I'm wondering if this could be incorrect fitting of the condensate pipe ? I've included a detailed diagram along with some photos taken of how this was installed (all fitted by Gas Safe engineers under the Warm Home scheme in Scotland). I wonder if someone can spot a problem with how this has been assembled as prior to this there were absolutely no issues at all with any smell or water quality ???



Also, we have an open pipe behind the washing machine/dishwasher with their waste pipes just shoved down into it - is this ok ?


From what I can see, the condensate pipe joins to this open vented pipe and is well after the sink u-bend/trap - should it be BEFORE the trap ? The condensate pipe itself runs down from the boiler, then up, down again to the pipe which has bends also - could these dips in the pipe cause a problem at all ?




Any information would be greatly appreciated since I can sense some problems ahead with getting these guys to fix anything - it'd be good to be armed with some knowledge beforehand.


Thanks in advance boiler-install-diagram.jpg
 
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Re: Problem with condensate pipe ???? Terrible salty/sewer smell from upstairs bathr

It is unlikely to be boiler related but ring them anyway.

You do however need a trap on your washing machine pipe as it is open to the sewer.
Something like a WM3 (mcalpine)
 
Re: Smell after combi install - another condensate pipe problem ???

Is there a trap on the washing machine upstand?
 
In order to help you - (your diagram is ace ) but it does not show the levels - CHk
 
I'm impressed by your diagrams. Apart from the diagram showing that the condensate pipe from boiler to washing machine drain pipe seems to be ''climbing'', I do not see any problems with the set up (except that the condensate pipe should be constantly falling. Considering it is fitted indoors, why were they worried about the pipe freezing?
 
Re: Smell after combi install - another condensate pipe problem ???

eimaj, why do you feel the need to have two of the same post?
 
The condensate pipe is part of the boiler flue and should therefore not be open to atmosphere within the property.
Your drawing appears to show it incorrectly installed.
Get the installation company back imo.
 
Re: Problem with condensate pipe ???? Terrible salty/sewer smell from upstairs bathr

I do not know if you are just trying to increase your post count, but there really is no need to post THREE posts of the same information? I reckon the fourth and fifth are on their way.
You are not deliberately trying to upset croppie or spoil his festive holiday, are you?
 
Re: Smell after combi install - another condensate pipe problem ???

she knows croppie is on holiday
 
OP. You only need ask the question once. I have merged all the answers into this thread and deleted the others.
 
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The condensate pipe is part of the boiler flue and should therefore not be open to atmosphere within the property.
Your drawing appears to show it incorrectly installed.
Get the installation company back imo.

Only applies if the boiler doesn't have a trap. A worcester does.
 
Hi - apologies for the double post I had posted firstly here and after reading thought it may be better placed in the pipes/fittings section but was then unable to delete the first post !

Thanks for taking the time to look - the washing machine drain pipe does have a u-bend also (forgot to include that). The condensate pipe definitely DOES climb and fall at some points.

In short it comes across under the floor, climbs to where it is tie-gripped to another section of pipe and then comes down before rising slightly again and lowering just before the clamp fitting. Could this maybe be causing the issue i.e. gravity somehow affecting things ? I've checked all U-bends etc. and other than the normal slight build-up of crud nothing unusual. Obviously I don't want to touch too much.

They originally wanted to run the pipe straight out through the wall but opted for the under-floor setup as this was said to be less likely to freeze.

The strange thing is this issue has only been since the boiler installation - there has never been a smell or anything prior to this. The bathroom which is affected is directly above the sink under which the condensate pipe is installed - could it be related to the routing of the pipe or is this something else ? One thing I should say - on checking the washing machine/dishwasher drain pipe and removing the u-bend there was a 'hiss' sound which never occurred with any u-bend - does that have any relevance ?
 
Apologies for the post thing - I had thought I'd only posted once here and once in the other section as mentioned. Anything else has been an error on my part - I had some issues with the image etc. and hence must have accidentally reposted the same thing.
 
It's ok Jamie, I'll let you live this time...... Season of good will and all that....... :santa5:
 
I've been having a look again and it seems as if the smell is definitely coming from the upstairs bath overflow and plug hole and/or the sink overflow plug hole ? Just wondering - would a leak or similar in the condensate pipework cause any issues ? just as there are a fair amount of joins and fittings there ?
 
I've been having a look again and it seems as if the smell is definitely coming from the upstairs bath overflow and plug hole and/or the sink overflow plug hole ? Just wondering - would a leak or similar in the condensate pipework cause any issues ? just as there are a fair amount of joins and fittings there ?

Does not sound reLated to the condense pipe work tbh although you still have not told us if the washing machine standpipe has a water seal?
 
Thanks for taking the time to look - the washing machine drain pipe does have a u-bend also (forgot to include that). The condensate pipe definitely DOES climb and fall at some points.
?

Does not sound reLated to the condense pipe work tbh although you still have not told us if the washing machine standpipe has a water seal?

Mentioned the WM upstand here!

I would defo be getting the installers back if you have concerns. Failing that get another GSR to come in & assess the situation to either put your mind at rest about the condensate or confirm that there is an issue.
 
Hi,

The washing machine upstand is being used by the washing machine and a dishwasher (it's always been used in this way since we moved in). It has a u-bend but there is no other seal I can see i.e. the waste pipes from both machines are just shoved inside the plastic upstand pipe. Could this cause issues elsewhere ? Things are developing now and they will be coming back out. The water temperature is varying i.e. it will be hot i.e. 50-60 degrees but then go to 20-30 degrees and back again. The only way I can get constant hot water is to turn the tap well down (to a near dribble). Upstairs it's much worse - the water is just not warm enough for a usable bath, yet the shower seems fine ? Also, the water from the hot tap is cloudy ?

I read somewhere else that in Scotland (where I'm located), it's best practice to use thermostatic mixer sets for the bath etc. is this correct (since the kitchen and bathroom taps are of the basic mixer type) ?

One thing that may be important here is that after checking and cleaning the washing machine upstand pipe (and hearing the 'hiss' noise as mentioned before), the bathroom upstairs did not seem to smell quite so bad for a while ? It's back to normal now though and neither the washing machine or dishwasher have been used.

The guy in charge is going to speak to the installer to check with him how things were done etc.

One thing I'm still not clear on after checking the recommended condensate routes for Worcester boilers - should the condensate line be going under the floor, angling upwards, dipping down, then up again etc. ? Just as from the manual they seemed to clearly show a downward angle along the full length of the pipe ?

Thanks for the assistance as this has been causing sleepless nights and from talking to this guy it's going to be a battle to get anything done.
 
Just wondering - after looking at another diagram I've jotted down... am I right in thinking that my kitchen sink trap is basically overloaded now with possible sources which could cause a vacuum and empty traps ??? The reason I say this is that if I've had a sink connected then to a single upstand (from what I've read it should really be a double upstand with two u-bends for this) then could adding the condensate pipe have tipped the balance and now what's happening is somehow a trap/u-bend is being emptied thus leaving a clear line to the sewer ?

The only thing that puzzles me is why it's the upstairs bathroom and not the kitchen sink that is the source of the smell ? Or perhaps the 'line to the sewer' somehow bypasses the sink but is leaving the upstairs bathroom waste clear ??? Just a thought - I'd be interested to know how you guys would view the washing machine setup in light of the fact we now have two appliances, a sink and a condensate pipe setup all fixed to the one pipe going to the soil stack ?

Again thanks for everybody taking the time to reply as it's a big help.
 
Hi eimaj,
There is no way in my mind that the smell you are experiencing is a result of the condensate pipework from your new boiler.
The condensate pipe work should have a constant fall from the connection at the boiler to the point it enters the waste pipe. The angle of fall can vary, but the pipe has to allow the collected condensate to run away from the boiler to the drain. As your observations indicate this is not the case, the condensate pipework should be altered to insure it has a constant fall and nowhere for the condensate to pool.
The issues you are experiencing with regards to the temperature of the hot water to your bath may indicate an issue, however it may not be a fault with the boiler or its instalation.
Combi boilers heat cold mains water as it passes through a component inside the boiler, the temperature of the water you get out of the boiler and to youre hot taps will be affected by the temperature of the incoming cold water and the pressure and flow rate that the cold water is supplied at.
I have known 28kw combis need the bath taps flow rate to be turned down in order for the water to reach the appropriate temperature.
Has the new boiler replaced another combi or did you have a hot water cylinder before? Unfortunately if you had a hot water cylinder before you may well notice a difference in performance when it comes to filling a bath.
Is the cloudy ness of the water constant?
If you fill a bath is the whole bath water cloudy or does it appear cloudy for a short time before clearing?
I Hope your engineer can attend to your concerns. Please do let us know how you get on.
 
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Hi,

Just a note to say how things are going. The installers came out and the guy saw straight away that the condensate pipe was going up and down instead of on an incline and changed this to give it a straight run. When he cut the pipe he was quite surprised at the amount of water sitting dormant in the dip in the pipe. He still didn't think this was the source of the smell but strangely the smell seems to have lessened/went away since his visit - time will tell I suppose.

After checking around the bathroom area and having a look at other possible areas of concern incase the smell returns, I've noticed that the large cold water storage tank in the loft is filling up still ? Just a bit surprised by that since I'm 99.99% sure that the original installers had said that this along with the old immerser heater tank (this is 100% removed). Can I just check - SHOULD this cold water tank (the large 'coffin' type with the ballcock in) still be plumbed in or is this another issue ???

Oh, also the guy did something which seems to have solved any water temp issue.

Thanks to all who took the time to read this thread and help - it's greatly appreciated.
 
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