it shouldn't happen to a plumber........but it does!

[kay-jay]

rant post!

today was 'one of those days'

went to change taps at a customers house. straightforward you would think?
well alarm bells should have been ringing when she said her husband (deceased) used to be a plumber and did all the house years and years ago.
first problem couldn't get the off...some kind of jointing paste had practically welded the backnuts on.had to drain system because the loft was full of junk and it would have taken hours to move enough stuff to get to the cistern to bung it and of course the gate valve was seized.

time taken to replace taps 2HOURS anyway job done big sigh of relief,thinks to myself well at least i won't get an airlock because of this handy little tip i have. smile to myself and think i should stick the tip on the plumbers forum after all i've never had an airlock since i got given the tip.

turn on mains and fill cylinder....bloody airlock! so i goes to get my rubber shower hose to connect hot to cold mains. hooked it up taps on and water everywhere cos the damn thing split.

right so off to local machine mart for some hose connectors to rig up a replacement hose for blowing out the airlock. stuck in traffic ages.
get back to customers house, turns on hot tap....bugger only working fine now cos the air had risen while i was out.

why oh why did i give customer a fixed price before hand?

bugger
rant over with! (for now)


KJ

 

[Dan]

What a day!

Typical of a job when you're thinking 'will be in and out of here in no time'.

So what's this airlock tip then?

 

[Plumbstar Tom]

yes please share your wisdom

 

[easyt]

Didn't work though

 

[WaterTight]

I too want to know what the airlock tip was even though it didn't work.

These jobs are unavoidable. We've all had them and will have them again. If you're established and in demand you can avoid fixed prices but if not you've just got to shoulder these ones when they come up. Treat them as an exercise for developing how you deal with a crap situation within yourself.

Easy to say - hard to do.

 

[wnjswozo]

all part of the fun,least you did,nt break basin

 

[Dannypipe]

It happens to all of us....sometimes concurrently which is when you feel like jacking it all in. Two sh** days on the trot and I start day dreaming about becoming a banker/stuntman.

So you lost most of the day...what was the fixed price!?

 

[WaterTight]

I damaged a bath the other week changing some taps. New bath. Replacing row of tiles around it too. While sorthing out an airlock that occured after refilling spilled some water, damaged ceiling in floor below. Starting patching it too soon, made a hole in it. Finished the other day. Total time taken to change bath taps - maybe 7 hours?

 

[easyt]

I shouldn't laugh Watertight -- but I did

 

[moony]

the tip by the sound of it was to leave it for a while haha

 

[Dave]

Kay jay.. please watch the language..

 

[easyt]

I don't generally swear Dave but (maybe as it was only for emphasis ) I had never even noticed.

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

what i generally do with a hot airlock pull out the washing machine disconnect hoses connect both taps together with a spare hose and turn both on full, way to go airlock cleared

 

[tamz]

what i generally do with a hot airlock pull out the washing machine (curse yourself because the feet got caught in the vinyl and ripped it and the profits are gone paying for it) disconnect hoses connect both taps together with a spare hose and turn both on full, way to go airlock cleared

Watch how you pull machines out. Keep some 3/4" hose in the van.

Tip for no air locks.........do it live

Don'tbung the expansion or this may happen



This was actually from a job today where the cylinder had to be syphoned to remove it as there was no drain valve. The hose was tight in the draw off so created a vacuum which flattened the cylinder.

 

[easyt]

Hey I've seen one like that. 20years ago I noticed that a house was on the market on a plot that was needed for a future minor highway improvement. I arrange for the job to be brought forward to use the opportunity It had been recently modernised a month or two prior to sale. New central heating, new bathroom, new kitchen and fixtures (oven, washing machine built in fridge etc). new gutters and down pipes. rather than just demolish with all that gear in I passed the key to the local council direct labour depot with instruction that if anyone wanted stuff they should pay at least 5% of market value to cover themselves. It would have been a shame to just tip it. But the hot water cylinder was just like that - imploded. (Three months later when it was due to be demolished the kitchen, heating system, bathroom and even the gutters and own spouts had been 'reclaimed').

 

[Twinhawk]

You know things arent going to go well when you say to yourself "right, in.. out bang bang 20 minutes job done" .......why oooo why is the bath panel plasterd into the wall??????? or changing taps and the 1/2" thread just wont go onto the new taps and you dont have any flexables with you to alter it cuz there is no play what so-ever

 

[Twinhawk]

and air lock tip, handy with a mixer in the kitchen open hot put your hand over outlet then open cold

 

[easyt]

Make sure customer isn't nearby to get sprayed.

 

[tamz]

and air lock tip, handy with a mixer in the kitchen open hot put your hand over outlet then open cold

Cup your hand as most now have a seperator, or if you have hands like a ***** take the spout off

 

[Avatar]

This is why I refuse to give a fixed price on small jobs - I give a 'ballpark' figure based on my hourly rate, and charge them for the exact time taken . . .

Its worth it in the long run (probably lose some jobs though)

 

[kay-jay]

Tip for no air locks.........do it live

Don'tbung the expansion or this may happen

View attachment 1338

This was actually from a job today where the cylinder had to be syphoned to remove it as there was no drain valve. The hose was tight in the draw off so created a vacuum which flattened the cylinder.

thanks tamz, can you explain how this happens by bunging the cwsc feed please? i would have thought that a bung simply stops the feed from flowing just like the the gatevalve would if it wern't siezed. i also thought that that a collapsed cylinder would only occur if the cylinder were to be emptied via a syphon effect, but surely unless the vent was bunged also the cylinder could 'breathe' and wouldn't collapse anyway.and if the vent and feed were bunged then the cylinder wouldn't drain?????
i'd really like to know where my thinking is flawed so i can avoid catastrophe on future jobs!!

thanks


KJ

 

[wheeto]

Hot water in the cylinder cools and contracts.

 

[easyt]

Doubt it. Water doesn't expand much unless frozen. Also hot water often cools.

Simply letting water out in a way that doen't allow air or water to replace it cause a vacuum. Atmospheric pressure does the rest. Fil an empty plastic coke bottle with water. Turn it upside down - vertical without a top. Water runs out and air cannot emter so bottle crushes. Plastic bottle regains shape. Copper cistern doesn't

 

[kay-jay]

yeah but as i said before unless you bung the vent as well surely the cylinder would take air in from there and not compress

 

[easyt]

It would but some folk drain the tank by pushing a tube in that way if there is no draindown and siphoning. This can block the air.

 

[kay-jay]

so bunging the feed isn;'t a problem unless i'm silly enough to bung the vent too?

 

[Twinhawk]

once you bing the tank the static head is then from the top of the cylinder which doesnt need drained, open a tap, .5 bar at most in a 3 story house isnt going to collapse a cylinder, maybe a direct one for heating with the weight of water

 

[kay-jay]

thats what i thought twinhawk, i was querying tamz post from above warning of cylinder collapse.
personally i can't see how it would collapse by using a bung but tamz has been at this game longer than me and i respect much of what he says in his posts.

 

[tamz]

99 times out of 100 you would be fine bunging it but there is the possibility that it can and does happen.

Things to watch for are if there is an essex or surrey flange on the cylinder where it can draw from inside the tank or if there is a pump on the draw off which kicks in.

Just be aware, .