Gas meter moved from garage to front of property. How much to extend gas pipe?

[armyash]

Hi guys, was supposed to be a on a job today, fitting a new radiator to a kitchen, and piping up 2 newly added radiators. Turned up today and the customer has asked me to quote for additional work. The gas meter is being moved from the garage (which is currently being converted to a kids play room) to the front of the property (external) It's only about 8 meters worth of pipe, drilling through to the gas meter and connecting up. He wants it all done in one go and I don't want to be back and forth so said I will return Wednesday and do it all together.

Approximately what would you charge for something like this? Gas pipe will be clipped to the floor, run round to where the meter is, sleeved through the wall and connected up. Nothing big needs to be done.

Thanks.

Edit: it's not me moving the meter, just making the connection to what's already there.

 

[Dotty]

How long you think it'll take × your hourly rate + materials × markup - any discount you feel prepared to give.

 

[Meady]

£60 hour plus materials

 

[Leo21]

8 metres! You'll probably need some 28mm copper = expensive. I'd allow at least five to six hours, plus materials. Do your home work Ash, or you'll get your fingers burnt.

 

[armyash]

The customer is planning on burying this pipe as far as I am aware, to bring the floor level up to the same as the kitchen so I will have to make sure it is adequately protected. Even though some of what is already there has just had cement poured over it from what I could see.

 

[Dotty]

go with trac pipe or gas tite if it's getting buried Ash.

 

[armyash]

go with trac pipe or gas tite if it's getting buried Ash.

I think that's what I will have to do thanks Croppie.

I have never used this before, is it easy enough to get fittings to connect on to copper?

 

[Leo21]

I think that's what I will have to do thanks Croppie.

I have never used this before, is it easy enough to get fittings to connect on to copper?

Yes, it even comes with instructions.

 

[stevetheplumber]

i would just wrap copper if it going in screed i would probably use 28 but depends what its feeding and where

 

[Masood]

go with trac pipe or gas tite if it's getting buried Ash.

Pah! That's for pansies. What's wrong with Denso?!

 

[armyash]

i would just wrap copper if it going in screed i would probably use 28 but depends what its feeding and where

It's only feeding a boiler and a cooker. Probably 12m gas run from the meter to the furthest appliance. Looks as though I will be doing the work tomorrow evening once I finish work so it will be a late one. Without compromising on how well it's installed I will be looking to do it as quick as possible.

 

[lame plumber]

sticky muck, plastic sheathed copper is an alternative to trac pipe, but if the original is already buried was that sleeved or does it need replacing if your name is going on the job?

 

[Leo21]

It's only feeding a boiler and a cooker. Probably 12m gas run from the meter to the furthest appliance. Looks as though I will be doing the work tomorrow evening once I finish work so it will be a late one. Without compromising on how well it's installed I will be looking to do it as quick as possible.

Only feeding a boiler! Ash come on, is it a combi? If so, chances are it will need 28mm. Don't forget the smallest combis are 24kw.

 

[AlexGas]

I think that's what I will have to do thanks Croppie.

I have never used this before, is it easy enough to get fittings to connect on to copper?

Have a read here:

http://www.tracpipe.co.uk/uploads/downloads/FGP-027UK_REV_Sept_2013.pdf

Hope it helps.

 

[armyash]

No it's not a combi. It's a Profile. If It needs 28mm then that's what I will do.

 

[Leo21]

No it's not a combi. It's a Profile. If It needs 28mm then that's what I will do.

I would, explain to custard your future proofing it for if he has a Combi. At extra cost to him obviously.

 

[Mike Jackson]

It's worth questioning them on their future plans. No point in sizing the gas pipe for the boiler there now if they intend to upgrade in the future. They'll end up paying the labour twice. If you use tracpipe or gastite you can buy a boiler kit which includes the pipe and terminal fittings. Cheapest place I found it was BES.

 

[armyash]

Thanks guys. For what it's worth I have only seen gas pipe upgraded from 15mm to 22mm when combi's have been installed except at a care home where a really big combi was put in and they had it upgraded to 28mm.

That's including all the jobs I assisted on. This job it's currently in 22mm.

 

[newcastle phill]

At minimum size the pipe for a 1mb drop as per the regs working pressure and advise re latitude for expansion

 

[armyash]

Does anyone use an online pipe sizing guide they can recommend? At present the meter is on the wall of the garage, 22mm comes off the meter straight down the wall and along the garage floor, straight in to the kitchen for the hob and then to the boiler. All in line, no other appliances. The meter is being moved approximately 4 meters further away.

 

[kozak1968]

Yes, it even comes with instructions.

Go on Youtube and they show you how to fit trac pipe and Gas tite.

 

[AlexGas]

Does anyone use an online pipe sizing guide they can recommend?

I trust my pen and paper.

 

[newcastle phill]

Does anyone use an online pipe sizing guide they can recommend? At present the meter is on the wall of the garage, 22mm comes off the meter straight down the wall and along the garage floor, straight in to the kitchen for the hob and then to the boiler. All in line, no other appliances. The meter is being moved approximately 4 meters further away.

Well you've got 2 sections there by the sounds of it so will be calc'ed on 0.5mb drop per section.

Calculate the gas rate per appliance. Size the pipe accordingly from viper tables.

Note viper tables relate to 1mb drop per length.
So would need multiplying up accordingly for more sections.

Its very important ash to get this bit right.

>>>>>>My advice is rough based on your outline.
Adding a diagram wit elbows and tees and distances would allow help you more.<<<<<<

An elbow and tee add 0.5m each. Swept bend 0.3m each to total length

 

[armyash]

I have drawn a dodgy diagram using ms word, using the basic shapes available. Is there any way of uploading it to the thread?

 

[newcastle phill]

Save a tightly cropped screen grab as pdf ??

 

[newcastle phill]

Or j peg

 

[armyash]

View attachment hazlemere.pdf

 

[armyash]

ok i think that has uploaded ok.

It's clear to me as i have seen the job, any questions please ask.

 

[AlexGas]

What are the inputs?

 

[armyash]

What are the inputs?

I will have to come back with that info.

This is where my lack of experience shows, will need to get my head in back in the books.

 

[Leo21]

Without even working that out, it needs 28mm.

 

[newcastle phill]

Yeh im sure your right.
But its showing ash to refresh his memory

 

[AlexGas]

I will have to come back with that info.

This is where my lack of experience shows, will need to get my head in back in the books.

If the boiler is 24KW and the cooker is about 8Kw, you are good to have it in 22.

 

[Dotty]

Yeh im sure your right.
But its showing ash to refresh his memory

Phil's right, instead of throwing pipe sizes at Ash it'd be more beneficial to him to help him with the working out for future jobs. I know most of you can get it right by rule of thumb and experience but our boy's not quite there yet.

Let's make a good engineer into an excellent one.

 

[AlexGas]

Get your head around it, Ash.

 

[AlexGas]

Phil's right, instead of throwing pipe sizes at Ash it'd be more beneficial to him to help him with the working out for future jobs. I know most of you can get it right by rule of thumb and experience but our boy's not quite there yet.

Let's make a good engineer into an excellent one.

I’ve done all of the math just now on paper. There are could be more bends and elbows though.

 

[armyash]

Ok so lets say for arguments sake it does definitely need 28mm.

That would be 28mm from the meter and only reduce it at the points it branches off for each appliance?

I'd say 99% of houses I go to it's 22mm off the meter all the way to the boiler and 15mm for cooker/hob. I rarely see 28mm from the meter!. I should get back to this property tomorrow and will check the appliances. As it's all in 22mm now does that mean it's all been incorrectly sized up to now or does moving the meter 4 meters away and adding in a few 90's make that much more difference?

I'm happy to do it the correct way but it's frustrating thinking how little I see 28mm on peoples houses if this is the case. Thanks for all the replies.

 

[newcastle phill]

Ash. If its 4m longer and you have 2 branches/legs.
That 4m can then effectively becomes at least 8m or with an elbow etc more...
It Can make all the difference...

...especially when its being audited by gas safe.

I cant see diagram as on tapatalk and its not showing

 

[armyash]

Ok ill check KW of the appliances when i next go back. If 28mm is required that's what i will advise. I know the customer is not going to want me to upgrade the whole lot to 28mm but if that does turn out to be the case he will have to go elsewhere. I might be lacking experience but that's why i come on here and ask questions. I know some guys who would have just extended the 22mm no questions asked.

 

[armyash]

Is it correct that the entire run would have to be 28mm? (not counting the reducing down for the appliances)

 

[armyash]

Domestic Gas Pipework - Pipe Sizing

Looks good for revision

 

[Scott_D]

Is it correct that the entire run would have to be 28mm? (not counting the reducing down for the appliances)

No, only as much as is needed

 

[armyash]

I will check appliance kw asap then i will know for sure. thanks guys.

 

[stevetheplumber]

if they are all working ok now if you put 28 from meter to existing youlll be fine it loks like your loosing 1.5 of 22 up to existing meter so only adding 6.5 stick it in in 28 if the appliances are low add a bit more but i doubt there would be a problem

 

[Millsy 82]

My personal opinion would be to run the new pipe in 28mm under the floor even if it didn't need it. My reason would be that there boiler in at the moment is probably ok off it now but if in the future they want it ripping out and a nice big combi installing then chances are they will have to upgrade the gas to cope, so as someone has already said it's just future proofing it and it will be cheaper and easier to do it now than having to rip up floor boards etc in the future. I would explain to them why you want to do it like that and most people would probably go for it.

As for your question about why you hardly ever seen 28mm is that a lot of new boilers installed the gas pipe is undersized, people just put them in and not think of the gas pipe they just see 22mm pipe and a 22mm connection and connect it up. If you size the pipes then you will see that if you have a combi and a cooker and a decent run 9/10 it will need some 28mm.

 

[armyash]

After all this, he phoned me this morning and said don't worry he is going to get the people moving the meter to make the connection. Suits me, i know he wouldn't have gone for a whole new gas run. I had it in mind to do what Steve has said. 28mm up to existing. (if sufficient)

Will be interesting to see what's there when i go back in a couple of days to pipe up some rads. It's all being buried, and they will want a combi in the future.

 

[stevetheplumber]

if they put 22 in i would check inlet pressure on the boiler

 

[armyash]

I can see why people over charge for work now. I was supposed to do this job Sunday (the rads and heating pipes, not the gas) He said he doesn't have the rad valve yet so can I come a different day or do it at night. I said yes, got a text today saying can't go tonight as he still doesn't have the valve. I told him I can do it wed and thurs night, if not it will have to wait until next week as I am booked up for the weekend. I doubt I will get to do the job now.

 

[Scott_D]

Cant you supply a rad valve?

 

[Leo21]

After all this, he phoned me this morning and said don't worry he is going to get the people moving the meter to make the connection. Suits me, i know he wouldn't have gone for a whole new gas run. I had it in mind to do what Steve has said. 28mm up to existing. (if sufficient)

Will be interesting to see what's there when i go back in a couple of days to pipe up some rads. It's all being buried, and they will want a combi in the future.

I had low pressure on a meter last week, provider came in and moved meter further away from the boiler. They piped it in 22mm, when I went back to check the wp at the boiler. It was wrong, they had to come back and re pipe it in 28mm. And this is the provider! Makes you wonder.