Second opinion on quote

[Showerman41]

Location - provincial town in West Midlands.

We received this quotation after a personal visit by the proprietor of a local family business that has been trading for some years. It's also some years since we employed a plumber for a major job so we're rather out of touch with costs and would appreciate reassurance that it's not unreasonable for the amount of work likely to be involved. We don't want to waste someone else's time on another quote unless the consensus on here is that the asking price is outrageous. Would appreciate your thoughts.

First quote - for work in 1st-floor bathroom
-----------------------------------------------------
Dustsheet down all areas and all access routes.

Isolate existing hot and cold water services, and drain down.

Disconnect and remove existing shower mixer taps.

Isolate existing supplies beneath the bath.

Reroute new hot and cold water services from bath tap position to connect on to new booster pump assembly, to be sited to rear of bath behind bath panel. (That end of the bath is against a stud wall separating it from the airing cupboard, which has a hot-water cylinder. Also, it has to be done without moving the bath because of the tiling).

Identify existing shower hot and cold supplies to shower area. (This is a separate shower in its own cubicle on opposite side of bathroom).

Disconnect and remove existing pipework.

Reroute and reconfigure to connect on to booster pump assembly behind bath panel.

Reconfigure supplies from booster pump to connect on to Essex flange, to be fitted to existing cylinder.

Run independent cold supply from booster pump to connect on to cold water storage tank in loft (immediately above bathroom/airing cupboard)

Remove bidet to allow removal of existing tap.

Remove tap from pedestal basin.

Install new bath shower mixer, new bidet tap and new basin tap - supplied by client.

Reinstate bidet.

Fully commission and test hot and cold services and booster pump assembly performance.

Clear away all rubbish and leave site clean and tidy.

All electrical works to connect booster pump will be carried out by *********** and a full test sheet inspection will be provided and registered with the NICEIC.

Materials and labour - £1824.00 including VAT.

--------------------
Second quote
--------------------
Isolate existing cold water main service in utility room.

Supply and install Sure Stop water main isolation kit.

Commission and test.

Materials and labour: £141.60 including VAT
--------------------------------------------------

Thanks for reading this far

 

[TBServices]

Seems expensive to me. Hard to tell sat on my iPad though.

 

[Thoggy]

Does seem expensive and goes into a lot of unnecessary detail for me, maybe trying to make it sound like more work than it is. Just my opinion.

 

[TBServices]

Does seem expensive and goes into a lot of unnecessary detail for me, maybe trying to make it sound like more work than it is. Just my opinion.

Agreed. Probably paying extra for the 4 hours spent writing the quote!

 

[Showerman41]

Thanks - missus knows boss of a local taxi firm and will ask him if he has any recommendations for a second quotation (I'm taking into account it's a quotation, which I understand is a fixed price, and not an estimate). I always try to deal with firms who have a reputation to protect, which usually means personal recommendation.

As an aside, this all started because we couldn't get a replacement ceramic cartridge for the TC bath mixer/shower tap we had installed when the bathroom was refitted four years ago.... Visited all our local plumbers' merchants and every one said they'd never seen anything that would match it.... We're going for Bristan this time.

Long story, will save it for later. I've just spent far too much time reading the Richard at Home thread

Edit to add: Just for perspective, do your comments apply to both quotes or only the main one?

 

[michael c]

2nd qoute seems slightly high however the 1st qoute seems well off the mark especially given you are supplying some materials.

 

[JCplumb]

You can still get TC cartridges. I got one just before Christmas. I had to buy the whole shower and swap out the cartridge, more expensive than I wanted, but a lot cheaper than replacing the shower as it was concealed.
If you could still sort this out by just replacing the cartridge then take a picture of your shower and pop it up here, you could be lucky.
Infact I have a pic of the shower I fixed on another thread, I'll try to find it. I still have contacts for 3 suppliers.

 

[JCplumb]

I thiught I had posted pics on here, I hadn't but here's a link to the shower I sorted out.
Link.

 

[Showerman41]

You can still get TC cartridges. I got one just before Christmas. I had to buy the whole shower and swap out the cartridge, more expensive than I wanted, but a lot cheaper than replacing the shower as it was concealed.
If you could still sort this out by just replacing the cartridge then take a picture of your shower and pop it up here, you could be lucky.
Infact I have a pic of the shower I fixed on another thread, I'll try to find it. I still have contacts for 3 suppliers.

Thanks - ours is the Serie 9 bath shower/mixer (Seems I can't post a link to image, maybe cos I'm a new member?). Details of your contacts would be appreciated. Feel free to PM me if you prefer.

 

[peteheat]

You can still get TC cartridges. I got one just before Christmas. I had to buy the whole shower and swap out the cartridge, more expensive than I wanted, but a lot cheaper than replacing the shower as it was concealed.
If you could still sort this out by just replacing the cartridge then take a picture of your shower and pop it up here, you could be lucky.
Infact I have a pic of the shower I fixed on another thread, I'll try to find it. I still have contacts for 3 suppliers.

Well done JCplumb,

I didn't know the forum was to knock fellow tradesmen and / or question their integrity, wait until the day you arrive to start a job and the customer says I went on line and someone sent me their spare washer because you're too expensive.

Question was Second Opinion on Quote:

No I don't think it's excessive, it looks like a detailed quote (not estimate as pointed out) the figure covers some elements which are hidden therefore the full extent of the work is unknown however the contractor is positive enough to stop the cost exploding by eliminating "Extras".

A lot better than getting an inexperienced "College Graduate" offering a guesstimate of £1,200.00 and then finding he hasn't enough to complete the job leaving you with the proverbial gun to your head, pay more or try explaining to all the real contractors in your area why you are asking them to finish a job started by someone else.

1) I never give a quote or estimate without doing a survey.

2) I never take on a job started by someone else unless the customer pays me up front in full (not fair to ask so I never......)

If in doubt get the industry standard 3 quotes, remember you are interviewing each candidate for the job so how they present themselves, how much detail they go into while surveying the works and how much detail is covered in the estimate / quote are all very important factors to consider before making your choice.

 

[Showerman41]

First, please accept that I am aware your posters can give no more than a gut feeling based purely on *my* information, and I was using them more as a guide to whether I should go for a second quote. Never got the impression anybody was doubting his integrity. However, I will get at least one more quote - from someone recommended by her taxi friend. I've done a quick check and he shows up on business directories as a legitimate registered business (over 10 years) and based locally.

Our first contact was happy for us to source the replacement taps ourselves since we have more time to shop around for the best prices. Although my wife still has a job, I've retired and we don't have money to throw around

Also, I had seen the TC tap on a few websites plus eBay since that was an option we were considering anyway, so JCPlumb has not planted a new idea, simply helped us weigh our options

 

[Deleted member 32524]

sounds like he is being fair, what is the problem? If you want cheap be pre-paired to have no customer service, no warranty and no free fix if it goes wrong in time.

 

[Showerman41]

I wasn't looking for cheap - if that was the case I wouldn't be on here, but talking to some cash-in-hand cowboy. And I'm not.

"Fair" - to both sides - is precisely what I *am* looking for. I know people have to make a living, and I'm well aware 20% of what I pay will go straight to the Whitehall Wolves. As I said in the original post, we haven't had any big plumbing jobs done for years, so the ballpark figure in our heads was way, way out... and came as a bit of a shock!

However, I'm very grateful for all the input to this thread which gives much food for thought, and the missus and I will be having a chat over the weekend.

 

[Destroyer2813]

Who"s supplying the pump? , the disadvantage we have here is we haven"t seen the job so are guessing blind as to how awkward the job may be how much pipework and fittings are to be required and how awkward the job maybe to entail, granted on some of the points already made the quote seems a bit long winded i personally don"t detail things such as dust sheeting areas and isolating supplies etc. But if your unsure then get some others

 

[Rickster123]

I thinks it's a great quote. Shows thought and care has been taken to write it and that can only be a good thing. I like the fact that he starts with mentioning the dust sheets. Far to many don't bother with them at all. I'd say his price seems reasonable.

 

[SimonG]

How longs a piece of string?

As I advise all my customers, get more than 1 estimate for the works, speak to previous customers of the tradesman and make a decision from there. Cheapest is not always best and neither is expensive.

IMHO the way the 'quote' is worded shows that the individual has put a lot of time and thought into it. But that's just me.

 

[JCplumb]

Well done JCplumb,

I didn't know the forum was to knock fellow tradesmen and / or question their integrity, wait until the day you arrive to start a job and the customer says I went on line and someone sent me their spare washer because you're too expensive.

Question was Second Opinion on Quote:

Who's knocking other tradesmen or questioning their integrity?
The OP said they needed the work doing because they couldn't get a TC Bathrooms cartridge, I recently did a job where I had to somehow get a TC Cartridge or smash a bathroom up and was passing on the knowledge.
I didn't know the forum was to knock other tradesmens forum posts publicly? Oh hang on, there has been a bit of that lately...

 

[Pipedream]

I think the quote is very comprehensive and leaves little doubt about what is to be done. I always strive to do something similar (although I do not normally mention dust sheets !). I have seen the quotes some of my competitors have written and to be honest my four year old son could have done a better job.

I agree that it is impossible for anyone to say whether the price is right without seeing the bathroom, therefore I can only say that it would be well within the price range I might expect.

If the quote is anything to go by, there is some hope that the company in question know what they are doing - what price do you put on that.

I recently finished an 8 day full bathroom refurbishment. I knew that the customer had other quotes, so on completion I asked him why he chose me (he was very happy with the job, by the way). He told me I was the most expensive, but that one other person quoting told him it was a three day job and gave him a verbal quote, the other did not ask him questions, discuss the issues (e.g. tanking the shower enclosure etc) and provided a vague, hand written quote on a home made letter head, which arrived five days later.

He loved the fact that I spent loads of time discussing the job, explaining how everything would be done, the fact that he got a detailed quote emailed the same evening, with links to my website showing liability insurance details and Terms and Conditions. Some people are prepared to pay for a professional approach. To be honest these are the type of customers I prefer. In other words some people know the price of everything and the value of nothing and I am happy for my competitors to work for them !

 

[stevetheplumber]

id be more worried about using the existing services to feed a pump most pumps now ask for dedicated supplies and need to be situated in the airing cupboard

 

[Dannypipe]

I think that quote is fair. Glad I'm not alone. Pay peanuts, get monkeys. It's not just a catchy phrase.

 

[REDSAW]

errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr1!!!!!!!!!!!!

thats expensive but it says supply all materials? how much are the brass ware?.

its for a new shower valve, new pump and new taps, how many days?

the bumf above is just part of what you do to complete the job any way, they also forgot to add test toilet works!

the sure stop is heavy too unless its hard to get at imo.

 

[TBServices]

Looks like I should be charging more.

 

[REDSAW]

i only ask around £90-120 for the sure stop, they re not hard!!

 

[tackleburger]

I'll make a few assumptions on this;

The plumber is supplying the pump.

The cylinder is through the wall therefore not far away and therefore a cold water route to the tank is established so not difficult.

The plumber is professional and took time and put thought into the quote.

The job sounds awkward in some respects.

He will be using copper pipe.

On that basis and assuming it takes 1 man two days or two men 1 day the bottom line is the job is making about a 1k in profit. I think it may well be done by one guy in a day but obviously I can't be sure.

On that basis if you think £500 for a day is expensive go somewhere else. I am sure there are equally professional plumbers out there that will give you a comparable quote. Incidentally this guy has covered everything as far as I can see so you know what your looking for.

 

[Showerman41]

Thanks for all the responses - many of you have obviously put thought and time into them, and that is much appreciated. Yes, he is supplying the pump, and the hot-water cylinder is just through a stud wall in the airing cupboard along with c/h pump and immersion heater wiring.

To me, it does look awkward (but what do I know ), especially if we do have the pump to the shower cubicle. I'd forgotten to ask how long it would take and have been told two to three days. Taking into account, as you say, he's covered everything and that the £500 is not clear profit - he has an office, run by the family, but they still have to be paid - and it starts to come into focus. And if it does take three days his profit goes down.

However, we have arranged for a second quote. Will be interesting to see how it compares, and not just in price

 

[Barry98]

Remember pay peanuts get monkeys , cheapest is not always the best

 

[Destroyer2813]

Let us know what tje second quote comprisses of please when you get it

 

[plumber0808]

Sounds too dear to me, I no everyone is saying pay peanuts get monkeys but I wouldn't want to pay over the odds. I obviously haven't seen the job but nearly 2k for that work seems excessive.

 

[lame plumber]

May look a bit pricy but its a quote not an estimate so hes accounting for problems etc and any potential call back. If he takes his time doing the quote properly, it may be he does the same in his work!! You dont have to take it, get some others, it may be hes good, inunundated with work and upped his prices a bit as he doesnt need the work!

 

[on31ll]

I dont think thats a bad quote ! He knows what he is going to do because he has stated it in his write up ! He hasnt left any guessing ! Have you seen his previous work ? Whats it like ? Are you impressed and is it high standard ? It might only take him 2 days but he has got that standard and that speed by doing it over and over and knowing what he is doing why should he charge any less ? If i change a stopcock in 2 mins and no mess should i charge less than sombody else who take half hour then half hour tidying up ?

Your paying for quality and the service ! With any good tradesman you pay for their talent and what they know ! Review his previous work then make your judgement

 

[wigz]

just gave a quote for £1900 to supply and fit bathroom suite. how much would you want to be earning to install basic bathroom suite?.

 

[Ray Stafford]

I like this - versions of it turn up all over the internet:

The internet has allowed all of us access to information that was formerly the domain of “experts.” However, we seem to have forgotten that information does not equate to expertise. The value in a professional relationship is not only in the information, but in the expertise that puts that information to work for you.


There is an old story about a multi-million dollar power plant that had mysteriously ground to a halt. All efforts to restart it had failed and an expert was brought in. After studying the problem for a few minutes he took a hammer and hit one of the valves. With a rumble, the plant came back to life. Incredulous glances were shared, grateful cries and high-fives were exchanged. Later, the expert’s bill arrived for the amount of $10,000.00. The outraged executive in charge thought “All he did was hit a valve with a hammer, this bill is ridiculous.” he asked for an itemized breakdown and the consultant responded with a bill that read: “Hitting valve with hammer $10.00. Knowing which valve to hit: $9,990.00.”

The value of expertise.

 

[nicro3]

Have a look at Will Self on you tube, his opinions on the internet make very interesting viewing.

 

[on31ll]

As every tradesman knows but the public wont understand ! You get paid for you know !

 

[RThomas010]

I think its a bit expensive, unless i need to put my prices up