Part P, From the horses mouth, info I have obatined

[armyash]

Hi everyone,

Further on from my other Part P thread, I have managed to gain more information from the guy I have been working with (for) on weekends and also from Corgi themselves. I'm sharing this information for anyone who is interested or in the same boat as me. I have took on so much information the last 18 months from this forum, phone calls and my courses that it feels impossible to arrange it in my brain in any sort of logical order! lol

The man who has let me go out with him to learn on weekends went through the paperwork for commissioning a new install on the weekend (priceless). I asked him about the electrical qualifications needed to install the boiler (and the rest) and he confirmed that Part P is all that is required, and he has also registered with Corgi electrical (as you would Gas safe).

He completes the electrical work on his installs and he obviously knows what he's talking about, he is very professional and his customers are always happy with his work when ever I am with him and I can only hope to reach anywhere near his level of work in the future.

Also I spoke to Corgi yesterday afternoon and they confirmed that Part P is all you need but registering with them is NOT a legal requirement as the install job would be logged with Gas safe. From that I can take that if you know you don't want to do electrics on showers etc but you do want to do the electrics on boilers as long as you have Part P and you are GSR (obviously) you're good to go.

If this info is useful to just one person it was worth typing, it's helped me understand it clearer as I type it out so no skin off my nose.

 

[mountainman]

He completes the electrical work on his installs!
Can you be more specific as to the scope of the electrical work!

 

[Barry98]

i could be wrong but i think is it not classed as minor works ?

 

[PowerFlusher2]

Many thanks for that armyash: '..........as long as you have Part P and you are GSR (obviously) you're good to go.'

That's what I said.

I have Part P (and 17th Edition) but I'm NOT GSR, so I don't fulfil the legal requirements to be able to test and certify correct connection of a gas appliance to the 230v household installation.

The original thread developed because I said I would only wire up to the fused spur as I didn't consider myself qualified to connect an appliance for which I had received no training and which was covered by another set of regulations (ie NOT Part P nor 17th Edition) - with which some members disagreed because 'their' non-GSR, Part P sparks WERE/ARE connecting and testing the installation themselves.

 

[PowerFlusher2]

He completes the electrical work on his installs!
Can you be more specific as to the scope of the electrical work!

If he is Part P he is permitted to extend an existing circuit to provide a fused spur for the gas appliance and YES, it is minor works and he would only need to leave with the householder a Minor Electrical Installation Works Certificate. No requirement to inform LBC. Downstream of the fused spur is outside the scope of Part P.

 

[armyash]

He completes the electrical work on his installs!
Can you be more specific as to the scope of the electrical work!

Boiler/cylinder stat/motorised valves/ programmer etc

He showed me his Part P certificate and there's more things he would be ok on but I can't remember off the top of my head.

 

[armyash]

i could be wrong but i think is it not classed as minor works ?

I assume that's correct.

 

[armyash]

Here's an update with more information obtained from the training establishment where I will be doing the course. I asked if 17th edition was a legal requirement and below is part of the reply I received. Obviously they want your money but it looks like it will be very beneficial to get 17th edition sooner rather than later.

You can work on showers, change consumer units and other electrical work required in a dwelling. Boilers are covered by manufacturer’s instructions.

If you wish to sign off your own certificates you would need 17[SUP]th[/SUP] Edition to sign off as a qualified supervisor.

If you take the 17[SUP]th[/SUP] Edition before April 2013 it would save you having to do NVQ 3 in Electro Technical, which would take approx 1 year to complete.

 

[mountainman]

As a side issue regarding NVQ.
What if someone has C&G qualifications and a lot of years experience in a trade, does that exclude them from NVQ or would that person have to follow a NVQ 'kid' around to prove he knows his trade?

 

[armyash]

As a side issue regarding NVQ.
What if someone has C&G qualifications and a lot of years experience in a trade, does that exclude them from NVQ or would that person have to follow a NVQ 'kid' around to prove he knows his trade?

Not really sure what you're asking to be honest.

 

[Barry98]

And were off , lol

 

[armyash]

As a side issue regarding NVQ.
What if someone has C&G qualifications and a lot of years experience in a trade, does that exclude them from NVQ or would that person have to follow a NVQ 'kid' around to prove he knows his trade?

Not really sure what mountainman is asking, basically if you have 17th edition you will be exempt from that NVQ mentioned in the my earlier post.

If anyone else knows what he means exactly then please enlighten me

 

[mountainman]

Let's explore a hypothetical situation.

A fifteen year old begins his apprenticeship with a major employer in the 70's.
He completes the apprenticeship and C&G, he further goes on to attain C&G craft in both Plumbing and Electrical.

With me so far??

After that our hero goes on to run his own company, employing several direct trades running subbies, dealing with large organisations and titled gentry.

All I want to know is, if this pillar of achievement wanted to get a part time job after a short retirement from his industry, would this countries preoccupation with NVQ preclude him from employment??

 

[dancinplumba]

all new central heating control wiring IS notifiable, including: timers, stats, valves, pumps, boilers

imho

 

[AWheating]

NVQ?? = not very qualified??

im guessing any sparks in the trade or retired would have held 16th ed and would be able to do the 17th with no problems.

 

[AWheating]

all new central heating control wiring IS notifiable, including: timers, stats, valves, pumps, boilers

imho

not if you are changing like for like, unless its in special locations like bathroom/kitchen. If your altering an exsisting circuit then yes it will need a cert (minor works normally)

 

[armyash]

Let's explore a hypothetical situation.

A fifteen year old begins his apprenticeship with a major employer in the 70's.
He completes the apprenticeship and C&G, he further goes on to attain C&G craft in both Plumbing and Electrical.

With me so far??

After that our hero goes on to run his own company, employing several direct trades running subbies, dealing with large organisations and titled gentry.

All I want to know is, if this pillar of achievement wanted to get a part time job after a short retirement from his industry, would this countries preoccupation with NVQ preclude him from employment??

Surely if he has C&G from the 70's then he's already qualified? Would just have to update quals to keep up with the latest requirements (which is where the need for 17th edition by next year would come in to play).

 

[dancinplumba]

so you would replace an old piece of cable with an old piece of cable ?

 

[AWheating]

so you would replace an old piece of cable with an old piece of cable ?

what ever floats your boat!

you can change a piece of flex to a pump from a terminal box no problem, if you alter the fixed wiring ie. move a socket, add a spur then your need to cert. If you change a clock for a clock in the same position then you do not need to cert. If you change a light fitting switch in the same position then no cert, if you move the switch to another position then you need a cert.

thats what i remember being taught on my electrical training and 17th course but i will stand corrected if my memory is playing me up!

 

[mountainman]

Surely if he has C&G from the 70's then he's already qualified? Would just have to update quals to keep up with the latest requirements (which is where the need for 17th edition by next year would come in to play).

I agree, but everything is open to interpretation.
And please, don't call me Shirley...

 

[AWheating]

I agree, but everything is open to interpretation.
And please, don't call me Shirley...

calm down Shirley

 

[Nostrum]

http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/br/BR_PDF_ADP_2006.pdf

Page 8

Anything that needs to be notified means that you need to be a member of a competent persons scheme and registered to carry out electrical works.

Job done

 

[dancinplumba]

page 9: general requirements: M and N ,
showers and cookers not notifiable if no new circuit......

 

[Barry98]

hardly get past page 3 myself but hey ho

 

[armyash]

Things are starting to get complicated as they did with the other Part P thread of mine lol

Ok the bloke I work for has Part P, he is registered with Corgi electrical so can complete the electrical aspects of his plumbing work, anyone think that's incorrect?

 

[Barry98]

Sounds good to me

 

[dancinplumba]

nope not at all
imho as always

 

[armyash]

nope not at all
imho as always

joking right

 

[dancinplumba]

joking right

i do not think thats incorrect, there isnt a problem with it

 

[armyash]

So who here actually does their own electrics and what quals do you have and are you registered with Corgi?

 

[dancinplumba]

i think that the chap you work with has it right, doing his own gas an electrics, he takes full responsibility

 

[armyash]

i think that the chap you work with has it right, doing his own gas an electrics, he takes full responsibility

and gets all the money! lol

 

[AWheating]

page 9: general requirements: M and N ,
showers and cookers not notifiable if no new circuit......

i wonder if the installation of a higher rated (kw) shower or cooker needs notifying? due to the need to ensure cable size and protective devices are correct? im guess it would need to be if the fuse/cb was changed.

for example how many times do you get asked to fit a shower and find they want a 7kw changing for a 10kw. cant remember the number of times i have tried to explain the differences to a customer.

 

[dontknowitall]

They do need notifying - but that's what electricians are for!

imho

 

[armyash]

When you say 'they need notifying', who exactly?

 

[Veggie Dave]

They do need notifying - but that's what electricians are for!

imho

Yep, but bizarrely defined scope Part P allows you to replace a like for like cable - for example, if it's been damaged.

 

[AWheating]

When you say 'they need notifying', who exactly?

in the form of a cert to who ever your registered to ie. corgi, or more likely nicieceeeecececece what ever there called

or you can notify to local building control and pay for them to inspect it for a few hundred squids.

 

[armyash]

in the form of a cert to who ever your registered to ie. corgi, or more likely nicieceeeecececece what ever there called

or you can notify to local building control and pay for them to inspect it for a few hundred squids.

if registered with Corgi, complete a cert and and send to them? would there be a cost involved or is it that just the procedure?

 

[AWheating]

im thinking its an anual fee with a small fee if a building compliance cert is required, im not 100%sure. Ask your engineer how he deals with it. Im a qualified sparks but i dont get much electrical work for my private work so currently have no need to notify anything.

 

[dancinplumba]

im thinking its an anual fee with a small fee if a building compliance cert is required, im not 100%sure. Ask your engineer how he deals with it. Im a qualified sparks but i dont get much electrical work for my private work so currently have no need to notify anything.

my sparks does it online
he's registered with elecsa
pays to be with them and pays a couple of quid when notifying

 

[dancinplumba]

same as gassafe i guess except he has compulsary yearly inspection

 

[AWheating]

its a shame i dont get more electrical work really, ive got a grands worth of testing equipment sat in the cubby gathering dust.

 

[dancinplumba]

sell it or get back into it, what about pv ? my sparks just got into it, he's busy even tho payments might be reduced, not mcs yet but gets someone in for £600 which cust pays,

 

[armyash]

good replies from everyone thanks, learning something every day!

 

[Nostrum]

sell it or get back into it, what about pv ? my sparks just got into it, he's busy even tho payments might be reduced, not mcs yet but gets someone in for £600 which cust pays,

Ask him in 2 weeks time if he's busy, I have been installing P.V for the last 3-4 months (with a big gap over Christmas!) and I expect the work to fall right off after March 3rd.

 

[dancinplumba]

Ask him in 2 weeks time if he's busy, I have been installing P.V for the last 3-4 months (with a big gap over Christmas!) and I expect the work to fall right off after March 3rd.

will do.
thats my birthday !!

 

[Nostrum]

No point asking if you won't remember the answer though!

 

[dancinplumba]

No point asking if you won't remember the answer though!

true...best to ask him after weekend celebs

 

[AWheating]

sell it or get back into it, what about pv ? my sparks just got into it, he's busy even tho payments might be reduced, not mcs yet but gets someone in for £600 which cust pays,

got plenty of plumbing going on to be honest, have rewired a couple of houses but not much since then, but better to have the tools ready if the plumbing drys up and work comes along. Im looking to do my solid fuel quals in the next few months as well as i have been seeing more and more interest in this both dry and wet. more feathers in the cap and all that.

 

[dancinplumba]

i lve in the town where ESSE are made, going to do training there re solid fuel/multifuel. been here over 20 yrs and not done it yet, think its time
as you said its growing market and another feather