How can I turn my underfloor heating on?

[iambigred]

Hi,

I bought an apartment recently that has underfloor heating installed, I've never really had to use it over the last few months since it's been warm and the apartment is very well insulated, however it's a bit chilly tonight so I thought I'd turn it on and see what it's like and have toasty feet, however nothing seems to get any warmer - the pipes don't even get warm.

Has anyone seen a similar setup to this? Perhaps you can advise if this looks right and everything is turned on properly. Apologies for the quality of the photos.

Starting from the top of the utility cupboard:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/119944/heating/1 top.JPG

Then down slightly to the heating water meter and pump:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/119944/heating/2 pump.JPG

and finally the feeds going into each room:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/119944/heating/3 pipes.JPG

When switching the power switch for the control unit on, the pump starts whirring (if there are any thermostats on) and you can see lights illuminate on the panel indicating that rooms requires heating.

The five black values at the start of each pair of pipes are turned mid-way, I presume this is the rate/flow of the water into each room? I have tried moving these into various positions and it makes no difference.

All of the stopcocks are turned parallel to the pipes. Are these on or off?

Does anyone know what the gubbins at the top left is, above the meter? It has red and blue screws and the triangular black thing above it? Sorry, I am really not very technical when it comes to plumbing!

The water supply for the heating is separate to the storage heater used for my hot water. The heat source is external to my apartment (communal?) and is assisted by nine exterior air-source heat pumps to reduce costs. Could it be that the input water is not hot/switched on? The guy who works for the developers has no idea how it works.

Thanks for any advice!

Alex

 

[Toddyplumb]

Ive seen one like this . It was installed incorrectly as well . Is this a new apartment ?
The pump is in the wrong place ! Where are you at ?

 

[iambigred]

It is a brand new apartment in Gateshead. From looking at diagrams of other underfloor heating systems there is a circulating pump usually between the manifold (apologies if this terminalogy is incorrect). The pump in my system appears outside of there underfloor loop, I think.

I noticed that the text on the heat meter (Ross Weiner WFM21) is in German. Searching for that model number reveals little information, although I did find a German datasheet for a similar model heat meter detailing how to navigate the different menu functions on the LED display. I have determined that water is flowing into the system at between 0.082 m3 and 0.140m33 per hour, closing one of the ball valves brings this to 0m3 as expected.

The display also shows that a maximum temperature of over 45 degC was achieved a few months ago, so this suggests that it was working (at some point!).

After leaving it switched on for over an hour the difference between input temperature and output was 3.4 degC, however this temp difference was not noticible when touching any combination of pipes. The kWh went up by 0.2, which seems quite low?

After turning the system off the flow went into negative/reverse and you could maybe hear/feel water flowing despite the pump now being off. After a few minutes the temperature difference returned to no flow and no temp difference. Does this mean that water is leaving the system? Should this happen?

Thanks for any advice.

 

[Toddyplumb]

You need to get the installer back to that to sort it out . I assume you have a gas boiler and hotwater cylinder with zone valves etc.
In fact if I were you I would be contacting the agent today ! Looking at you photos it looks like there is no mixing valve on the manifold . If you did get circulation you run the real risk of overheating the floor, dont know what floor coverings you have but it can ruin them.
It is also a very"untidy installation" That lagging is awful

 

[iambigred]

Many thanks for the info.

The hot water source for the underfloor heating is communal from the building, which is 'assisted' by nine air source heat pumps (~250kW) round the back of the building.

I have a storage heater for hot water, which is completely separate to the heating system.

Would this arrangement make any difference in the layout internal to my apartment compared to a system heated from a boiler or cylinder? Is it the actuators on the underfloor pipes that do the zoning internally?

I'll give the building developers a call. Thanks, Alex.

Edit: If there was a mixing valve, then wouldn't this require a cold water supply? Where is the cold supply in the photos?

 

[Toddyplumb]

Its not a cold it blends with but the underfloor heating return. It may be blended somewhere else then ? I must admit I thought it was a straight forward domestic set up , either way you need to know how it works.
I would be interested as to the reply you get.
Yes the actuators do the individual zoning within your apartment.
Thinking about it it may make economic sense to reduce the flow temperatures centrally and then supply all apartments as you wont need it any hotter as your hot water is from another source.
I would also guess that the meter is logging how much heat you draw for billing purposes.

 

[iambigred]

Thanks again, I'm awaiting a call back from the building developer. I might have a look in some of the other apartments and see if they are set up in a similar way.

The heat meter does seem very intelligent. According to the datasheet it can send data back via radio to a control unit, so billing is automatic. You can also scroll through the last 18 months usage on this display, which is useful.

 

[Toddyplumb]

Keep us informed if you will . I can sort of see how it could work but have never come across one like that.
The only one I saw like that was a domestic and was a cock up !

 

[Plucky]

Reason for no blending valve is because of heat pumps. They will be delivering water around 45 degrees anyway so no need to blend down.

You have circulation and it sounds like all controls are working. Pump is fine where it is. Auto by-pass in the correct position.

I would start by looking at the heat source. Have neighbours reported any problems? Are heat pumps working correctly? Are you drawing from a big buffer?

 

[Toddyplumb]

Have you installed these before Plucky ?
I guess its just a circuit of 45 degree water that the individual flats just circulate on demand via individual pumps. (seems logical)

 

[stevetheplumber]

if its comunial you might find its only switched on at certain times like september to may

 

[ecowarm]

As well as low flow temps it could be weather compansated so if it is above a certain temp outside the heat pumps wont run, therfore no heat to appartment. As the temp outside cools the flow will probably get warmer up to a pre set max i.e 40-45c. so no need for mixing valve as Plucky rightly said.

The hot water is from a seperate source.