DIY Gas Fitting

[mountainman]

Perception that a properly trained, qualified, insured and knowledgable tradesman is going to be much more expensive than a mate who 'does a bit of everything' is the problem IMO.

A few weeks ago a poster stated within the first couple of sentences 'I know that plumbers are expensive'

There is no counter to this mentality yet the same people flock to superstores to buy inferior products at inflated prices.

 

[david williams]

our courts can not decide the definitive definition of competant,its not about safety its about jobs for the boys and taking money off of you,ask gas safe hse for figures about prosecutions and complaints about unsafe instalations,have they gone down since registration came in,how many ec unregisterd plumbers are prosecuted ?.i have been in this industry for over 40 years and i know many plumbers my age who are not registerd for gas,but still do the work and are a dam site more competant than most of the fast track gas fitters i have had work for me.you all seem to think there should be legistration to ensure work for yourselves.

 

[mountainman]

There is if you live in OZ.

 

[fuzzy]

Yes I suppose cost is the main factor why you get people doing DIY. Some do like doing it for a hobby mind. The cost of gas training for ACS and the likes do add on a lot to running costs for a small company. If however, you consider how much money is made by gas suppliers and appliance manufacturers who are reliant on appliances being fitted by gas fitters, isn't it fair to ask for a large contribution from them toward training and ACS costs?

We even get boiler manufaturers seeming to want to charge you for learning how to service their equipment they should be paying you for wanting to do it.

Lets be honest wouldyou sell motor cars if nobody had passed a driving test that was required by law?

Surely safety is the object of ACS and to learn how to work safely should cost next to nothing.

remember though that you may be competent but not have your acs or be registered, then you can legally install a gas fitting or appliance, not possible if freedom to purchase gas fitting is removed

dont fall into the trap of thinking somebody who is a DIYer buys a gas fitting isnt competent or legal

 

[fuzzy]

our courts can not decide the definitive definition of competant,its not about safety its about jobs for the boys and taking money off of you,ask gas safe hse for figures about prosecutions and complaints about unsafe instalations,have they gone down since registration came in,how many ec unregisterd plumbers are prosecuted ?.i have been in this industry for over 40 years and i know many plumbers my age who are not registerd for gas,but still do the work and are a dam site more competant than most of the fast track gas fitters i have had work for me.you all seem to think there should be legistration to ensure work for yourselves.

maybe they are competent but they are working illegally if not registered and as a living

competence without registration only allows you to work on your own property

 

[mountainman]

How many gas fitters both 'fast track', registered and incompetent
And
'Old School', competent but unregistered have you employed Fuzzy?
If you are a major employer then perhaps you might consider paying your guys more money so that the older competent ones work for you legally and maybe even take a less experienced person under their wing and pass on their knowledge to the next generation.

 

[fuzzy]

How many gas fitters both 'fast track', registered and incompetent
And
'Old School', competent but unregistered have you employed Fuzzy?
If you are a major employer then perhaps you might consider paying your guys more money so that the older competent ones work for you legally and maybe even take a less experienced person under their wing and pass on their knowledge to the next generation.

not sure i follow your point.

im pointing out that to work on gas employed or self employed you must be registered. To be registeed you need your acs which is proof of competence.
If you work as a DIYer you only need to be competent, this may be through your acs but doesnt have to be, although i recon theres only a rare few who could prove it without

I would never employ anybody to do gas who was not registered
id never report a competent unregistered person working on their own home

 

[hammers4spanner]

not sure i follow your point.

im pointing out that to work on gas employed or self employed you must be registered. To be registeed you need your acs which is proof of competence.
If you work as a DIYer you only need to be competent, this may be through your acs but doesnt have to be, although i recon theres only a rare few who could prove it without

I would never employ anybody to do gas who was not registered
id never report a competent unregistered person working on their own home

So how does it work idf someone is competent to work on own home but when moving house cant issue a gas cert to build control ?

 

[Kyle87]

i bet you lose any gaurantees on appliances if a person who isnt gas registered works on them. apologies if this point has already been made....i havnt read entire thread!

 

[fuzzy]

So how does it work idf someone is competent to work on own home but when moving house cant issue a gas cert to build control ?

i dont know, ive never come across it, doesnt mean the law has been broken though.

 

[fuzzy]

i bet you lose any gaurantees on appliances if a person who isnt gas registered works on them. apologies if this point has already been made....i havnt read entire thread!

maybe so but again this doesnt mean it is illegal

 

[hammers4spanner]

The reason i ask is because i have recently come across the exact scenario of a non gas qualified person installing in their own home and upon sale no gas certs have been provided .
upon reporting this to gsr i got a response of pass it over to build control who have done a grand total of nothing !!!
If this is a case of the prior owner felt competent ( i have seen the work and say otherwise) then if nothing happens doesnt this make all this competent person irrelevant regarding someones own home??

 

[fuzzy]

The reason i ask is because i have recently come across the exact scenario of a non gas qualified person installing in their own home and upon sale no gas certs have been provided .
upon reporting this to gsr i got a response of pass it over to build control who have done a grand total of nothing !!!
If this is a case of the prior owner felt competent ( i have seen the work and say otherwise) then if nothing happens doesnt this make all this competent person irrelevant regarding someones own home??

a number of points come from this:

My experience with building control is just as you have suggested. I'm not even sure they know what the rules are regarding plumbing and gas, i had a similar experience reporting an unvented system.

They are breaking the law if working on their own home and not being competent. Just because 'they felt competent' is not the same. I dont consider the regs irrelevant, they are fine as they are for me.

is the installation legal? it may be ruff but if its legal then i fail too see what law has been broken. i suggest if something went wrong he would be prosecuted, but if not is it worth taking to court over 'competency'? it would be difficult to prove he wasnt if the work is ok and theefore a waste of gsr/public money and time

 

[hammers4spanner]

The boiler has been registered although the fire hasn't been register and when i looked at it its an ID scenario upon smoke test (spilling). To me in some scenario's the gas laws are not overly helpfull.

 

[fuzzy]

The boiler has been registered although the fire hasn't been register and when i looked at it its an ID scenario upon smoke test (spilling). To me in some scenario's the gas laws are not overly helpfull.

what do you think is wrong in the laws??????

as far as i can see this is a ID and therefore the jobs has not been done safely, therefore breaking regs. it further supports lack of competence, which is also a reg

 

[hammers4spanner]

I'm not saying their is anything wrong myself but its how joe bloggs has interpreted it as in the competant person .

Why dont they just say you cant work on gas at all unless you have taken said appropriate persons course in competancy , just my opinion from experience in this case i have recently come across

 

[fuzzy]

I'm not saying their is anything wrong myself but its how joe bloggs has interpreted it as in the competant person .

Why dont they just say you cant work on gas at all unless you have taken said appropriate persons course in competancy , just my opinion from experience in this case i have recently come across

id be surprised that this person has read the regs and decided he/she is competent, more likely they decided to do it anyway, and therefore ignorant imho

the laws cannot stop ignorance

the debate over what is and what isnt competent will never be solved, each case is individual and only considered once something goes wrong normally in a court of law. as something has gone wrong i presume its difficult for them to claim competency!

if the law was that you had to do a course that would mean a retired gas fitter of 50 years experience whos acs ran out 2 days ago couldnt sevrice his own fire, i dont agree with this

 

[MUR4Y]

Just fitted a new combi in my own home. Been a plumber for the last 24 years (Time served) . Did my acops when that was on the go. Got my acs ccn1 and cen1 and was gas safe through the firm I previously worked for till they folded last year. Fitted any amount of boilers on new build sites for them. Even though acs certs don't run out till 2013 I am no longer classed as gas safe, but there is no chance I am gonna pay another bloke to come round to fit my boiler when I am totally capable myself. Obviously boiler warranty is now void cos I cannot sign off the benchmark. How many more plumbers have been in the same situation?.

 

[AWheating]

Just fitted a new combi in my own home. Been a plumber for the last 24 years (Time served) . Did my acops when that was on the go. Got my acs ccn1 and cen1 and was gas safe through the firm I previously worked for till they folded last year. Fitted any amount of boilers on new build sites for them. Even though acs certs don't run out till 2013 I am no longer classed as gas safe, but there is no chance I am gonna pay another bloke to come round to fit my boiler when I am totally capable myself. Obviously boiler warranty is now void cos I cannot sign off the benchmark. How many more plumbers have been in the same situation?.

plenty. Loads of guys Gas Safe registered through a company have the same problem when doing work on there own houses. If the company you work for will not let you sign of the installation under there GS number what can you do about it??

 

[midge]

Just fitted a new combi in my own home. .... Obviously boiler warranty is now void cos I cannot sign off the benchmark.

Don't worry. You know it is fitted correctly, if something does fail, you will also have the skill and ability to repair it at minimal cost.

 

[hammers4spanner]

Don't worry. You know it is fitted correctly, if something does fail, you will also have the skill and ability to repair it at minimal cost.

very true but when they move will have to get a gsr engineer in to certify boiler ,,,,,all a tad daft !!

 

[Bernie2]

Hmm!

Making laws are a bit irrelevant regarding competence. Laws are a cheap way for governments to police an industry. The problem with them is, they do not usually come into effect until something goes wrong.

There should be a local gas inspector team paid for by the gas industry as a whole, who could go to every job where a gas appliance is being fitted or installation installed, for them to inspect the work and either yes or no it. You could then do away with all the ACS and Gas Safe stuff.

The repair work could be done quite easily by designing boilers in sections. All the gas fitter could then do, is replace each gas train section if it failed, requiring no more competence that it does for a housewife to turn on the gas cooker.

Owh! All the money spinners going lads!

 

[xixal]

Dan, thanks for your comments but I am not trying to install cookers or fires.

 

[xixal]

DIY Gas fitting is not recommending. This includes the installation of Gas appliances such as cookers and fires etc.

Always use a gas safe registered plumber for all your Gas plumbing requirements.

Dan, thanks for your comments I am not trying to fit a cooker or fire.

 

[xixal]

Stuart, I have already scoped where to buy the parts i.e 2 x lengths of coated pipework and three connections, no one asked me about being corgi registered. Furthermore any work carried out would be checked by a gas enginner who would be Corgi registered. I have had 4 quotes, all ranging from 1300 - 2300 pounds, the materials cost 176 pounds even at the lowest quote thats 1100 pounds for two pieces of pipe and soldering three connectors. Is any wonder people like myself are looking at other methods that are SAFE to do the job at a realistic price. is any wonder why they call this country "RIP OF BRITAIN"

 

[xixal]

Fuzzy take your point. In the last 7 years I have fitted several heating systems, I have always left the connections with gas to those who are so called qualified I only say this because some of the work done was not as good as I had amagined it would be. How do you define competent, its questionable I beleive I am competent but in order to be 100% sure I did mention in my link that a would getting an enginner if I were to do the job. I can't find an engineer that is able to give a realistic price, quotes of 1300 - 2300 pounds are ridiculas especially when the materials are less the 200 pounds...... Wish I never asked for help in the first place

 

[Reg Man]

Shall we say it again. Competence= Someone who has the relevant training, qualification and experience, to carry the work out safely in accordance with the gas safety (installation & use regulations) and the relevant standards which apply to the work being undertaken.

 

[Ermintrude]

Fuzzy take your point. In the last 7 years I have fitted several heating systems, I have always left the connections with gas to those who are so called qualified I only say this because some of the work done was not as good as I had amagined it would be. How do you define competent, its questionable I beleive I am competent but in order to be 100% sure I did mention in my link that a would getting an enginner if I were to do the job. I can't find an engineer that is able to give a realistic price, quotes of 1300 - 2300 pounds are ridiculas especially when the materials are less the 200 pounds...... Wish I never asked for help in the first place

Corgi? Isn't that for electricians? U make the joints, they leak in 5 years time due to workmanship errors.

Your not competent ! Are you doing any of this for financial gain? If so your a very naughty man!

It is illegal for you to affect any fitting or appliance connection or vessel involves in the supply of gas for financial gain if you are not a gas safe registered engineer.

You do your own electrics too?

 

[Barry98]

Xixal what is your normal job , for a living .

 

[Barry98]

More importantly how long did it take you to qualify , what equipment do you need , how often does it have to be calibrated , what so you spend yearly on insurance and training ?

 

[Reg Man]

Competence applies to every one DIY or employed no difference.

 

[lame plumber]

saw a yacht explode a few years back caused by an lpg leak, severe burns all round for those onboard and two of them breathed in the flames, very nasty results for them, and the rottweiller was severely narked off at losing most off his fur!

 

[xixal]

Look, I don't know who you think you are pr-k, your comments aren't constructive and warrant this reply. I get the point, your all would rather I get ripped off, I get it.. let face with ripping people off how would you survive. I came to this forum for advice, not to be slated by idiots like you. This thread is closed. Thank you

Corgi? Isn't that for electricians? U make the joints, they leak in 5 years time due to workmanship errors.

Your not competent ! Are you doing any of this for financial gain? If so your a very naughty man!

It is illegal for you to affect any fitting or appliance connection or vessel involves in the supply of gas for financial gain if you are not a gas safe registered engineer.

You do your own electrics too?

 

[SimonJohns]

Actually the thread isn't closed

And ok going to risk this. But there is no need to call a regular contributor names. And if we are going to be clear about this I think your the *****.

Please don't do any gas fitting for anyone or yourself. You don't realise the amount of danger you are exposing everyone to

Gas safe is there for a reason and the cost of the job is for a reason

People still die with registered engineers around but this is mainly due to unregistered engineers working on gas

 

[Rickster123]

Look, I don't know who you think you are pr-k, your comments aren't constructive and warrant this reply. I get the point, your all would rather I get ripped off, I get it.. let face with ripping people off how would you survive. I came to this forum for advice, not to be slated by idiots like you. This thread is closed. Thank you

Temper temper! Don't stress croppie or one of our lovely suuuuuuper mods will close it shortly.

 

[Dotty]

He is no longer welcome. And the thread is staying open.

One day he'll learn you can't put a price on safety.

 

[SimonJohns]

He is no longer welcome. And the thread is staying open.

One day he'll learn you can't put a price on safety.

Thank god for that

 

[Reg Man]

Look, I don't know who you think you are pr-k, your comments aren't constructive and warrant this reply. I get the point, your all would rather I get ripped off, I get it.. let face with ripping people off how would you survive. I came to this forum for advice, not to be slated by idiots like you. This thread is closed. Thank you

Truly shocking and there is no need for the abuse. The guys on here are professionals and for the best part know what there talking about. We often get people who ask for professional advice and we give the answers they require. It is most disrespectfully to ask the question get the answer and then want to argue that its wrong.

 

[Howsie]

The surgeon that did a hernia for me used a scalpel, needle and thread. He was happy with my cheque for £36 which included at £20 tip.

This fool clearly thinks he know better. Installed a few heating systems in my time. Ha. Ive hit a few golf balls in my time.

Ignorance is bliss.

 

[Reg Man]

Quote>This fool clearly thinks he know better. Installed a few heating systems in my time. Ha. Ive hit a few golf balls in my time.

Ignorance is bliss.<Quote: Yes I've hit a few golf balls in my time to, lost most of them, broken a few windows but fortunately did not kill anyone. The golf club suggested I had some tuition (training qualification and experience).

 

[Ermintrude]

Look, I don't know who you think you are pr-k, your comments aren't constructive and warrant this reply. I get the point, your all would rather I get ripped off, I get it.. let face with ripping people off how would you survive. I came to this forum for advice, not to be slated by idiots like you. This thread is closed. Thank you

Idiot has a master degree, 15 years experience and has managed the safety and constructive workforce on about £600 million pounds worth of construction projects.

You have endangered people, abused those who offered advice and pretty much justified the expression " a little knowledge is dangerous in wrong hands".

Pretty much why gas fittings and associated materials should only ever be sold to a badge holder .

 

[kirkgas]

Haha I cannae believe I missed this whole thread, I could have given him pelters as well, although to be fair you all managed fine without me

 

[Jimbob]

I remember speaking to an old corgi inspector. His reply to DIY gas work in your own home was that it was a grey area?! And that an Englishman's home is his castle. Views have definitely changed since. Competent = some who hold the relevant GS registration and ACS assessments

 

[Gorgeous Alan]

Gas pipe blanking off

I am a retired coppersmith with vast experience of pipe work in industry. I want to blank off a 15mm gas pipe in my own home. Can I do this legally or does this need certificating?

 

[Rich8]

No sorry mate it must be done by someone gas safe registered

 

[Reg Man]

With out reading this entire thread, this question has probably been already answered, so apologies for this. The gas safety (installation & use) regulations apply to everyone weather DIY or not. Reg 3 requires any one who carries out gas work to be competent to do so. This can only be demonstrated by someone who has relevant training and experience for the work undertaken. So an ACS qualification is a good marker to prove competence. So most DIY'ers would have difficulty proving competence and therefore could be seen in a court of law to have contravened the regulations.

 

[Dotty]

I am a retired coppersmith with vast experience of pipe work in industry. I want to blank off a 15mm gas pipe in my own home. Can I do this legally or does this need certificating?

With out reading this entire thread, this question has probably been already answered, so apologies for this. The gas safety (installation & use) regulations apply to everyone weather DIY or not. Reg 3 requires any one who carries out gas work to be competent to do so. This can only be demonstrated by someone who has relevant training and experience for the work undertaken. So an ACS qualification is a good marker to prove competence. So most DIY'ers would have difficulty proving competence and therefore could be seen in a court of law to have contravened the regulations.

So to sum up RM,

No.

 

[Dan]

Don't mind me while I bump some threads in the [DLMURL="http://www.ukplumbersforums.co.uk/plumbing-forum/"]plumbing forum[/DLMURL] category. This thread might not be a current topic, if it isn't, just let it drop off the list.

If you DO want to reply to it, go ahead, that's fine. Your post might add some value to the thread and help newer members in the future.

 

[Rickster123]

Dan are you spamming your own forum? Or just a slow day at the office mate?!

 

[rpm]

Dan are you spamming your own forum? Or just a slow day at the office mate?!

Too much coffee I reckon or he`s given up smoking. lol