acs-gas safe registered advice

[glenandem]

hi guys,id like to say hi as im a newbie and enjoying reading all the posts new and previous and have a few questions!
im 31 and have been a car mechanic since i left school however a few years ago i left that trade due to pay bonuses etc getting worse!
anyway i went working with my father whos a builder doing property maintance as he knew what experience i had at doing full kitchens,bathrooms even extensions from helping him in my spare time so im basically a monkey for him but a hard working one at that!
so whenever we do any extensions or need any gas work we have to get a gas safe plumber out as these are rental propertys,well now ive decided to try and get acs qualified and gas safe registered so i can do the work myself,ive fitted radiators and run piping,moved boilers,repaired one or two in yrs gone by but only my own which even then i know i shouldnt have but i was young and stupid! but im just saying on here so you know how much experience i have although i know i need and want to learn the proper way of testing and commisioning gas systems.
now after looking about ive found a company in stockport local to me called ecta training and can do my initial training acs,portfolio and acs assesment inc 4 areas there.
can i ask has anyone had any exerience with this company and one thing i cant understand is this company replied back to an email i sent asking for info saying i could do my portfolio in ten days at their site?
i thought i had to find somebody who was gs registered to do my portfolio with,can this company do this?
ideally i'd lik to go on an nvq course for a few yrs like i did when i was an apprentice mechanic back in the day but with family and time its just a no,so acs is the route i have to take,i will personally learning in my own time anyway not just to do the course but to build up my knowledge.
can anyone give me any usefull info or books too that may help me out but firstly i could do with advice on the acs portfolio info as this ecta training company has confused me!!
any advice greatfully recieved,thanks glen

 

[diamondgas]

Hi glenandem & :welcome: to the forum

Nothing begets experience IMO .... I spent 3 years as an apprentice and 1yr probation before being let loose on jo-public! That was back in the beginning of the 80's! Before the technology explosion happening today and all the other rules and regulations we have to remember!

My advice is don't rush into something that takes time and experience to learn! That isn't intended to put you off, more to advise you on pulling back on the reigns somewhat

 

[glenandem]

hi pal,cheers for replying back,i totally understand what your saying,i feel im ready to install a combi boiler but want to learn how to do it properly but unfortunately i need to get gas safe registered as soon as possible so we can start doing them ourselves instead of having to depend on this guy who's slow lazy and unfortunatly we have to use him due to the comany we do maintance for, it took him two and a half days to fit a combi boiler in place of an old one! then it had leaks days after he'd done it!
im hoping that i can build the experience myself as i go once im gs registered,i remember as i trained to be a mechanic the best way i learnt was doing the job myself and if there was anything i ever got stuck on i researched untill i was sure i'd done it right and knew how to do it.
i remember having a ravenheat years ago that had a dodgy diverter valve that i learnt how it worked and worked how to replace and sort the sytem out and i did that by learning myself,im just one of those people who like to strip things down to see how they work and then i know how to fix them etc!
can i ask what you think about this comany doing on site portfolios,is this correct i thought you had to go training on the job with a gs technician to do the portfolio side?

 

[Mbear]

ACS isn't just fitting boilers. For example Ventilation and flueing theory is a mine field and you must know your stuff by heart, be safe and competent.

It won't happen overnight, trust me

 

[diamondgas]

It sounds like they've realised that there's limited experience out there for the amount of trainee's they have so are offering an alternative? May be a good thing, definitely limiting in real world experience!!!

Having the mechanical background you have is most definitely a benefit. I had an experienced army mechanic train with me an she had the certain ability you knew worth while investing in!

 

[glenandem]

Having the mechanical background you have is most definitely a benefit. I had an experienced army mechanic train with me an she had the certain ability you knew worth while investing in!

haha think thats true pal,but you should see the kids coming into the garages today they just arent interested in learning about how cars work etc and ive seen that many come and go its unbelievable,saying that its probably true to alot of trades these days but im not labelling all these young kids,its just seems theyre not interested in learning!
im hoping once ive got through the acs and gs registed to go and do more courses on fault finding etc, then do my 17th edition and part p so i can do abit of basic electric work.
as regards the gas side i will only be putting combi's in houses and fitted heating systems etc,we do alot of rented houses in not the nicest of manchester areas and the foriegn tennants think when they move out they can take the combi,rads and all the pipework with them!
we just keep replacing these stolen systems with new rads and the plastic push fit piping,find it great stuff and rarely had any leaks then we get this gs tech in to replace the combi and commision the system so thats what i want to be doing instead of him and also plumbing cookers in etc as i fit a few kitchens and cant do the cookers either!
is it true theres a minimum amount of days you can do your acs portfolio in or in theory if i wanted to could i do it in days?

 

[glenandem]

ACS isn't just fitting boilers. For example Ventilation and flueing theory is a mine field and you must know your stuff by heart, be safe and competent.

It won't happen overnight, trust me

hi pal,totally know that mate and ive had a brief view of these regs and it is a bit mindblowing but im hoping to find some info on the web or get a few good books on these things!
can you recommend any places of good reliable info for a learner?

 

[Mbear]

Days? No chance.!

I'd give u half a chance if u can answe this without cheating

How big should the vent be in a room with a 17kw net open flued boiler in cm2

 

[Mbear]

hi pal,totally know that mate and ive had a brief view of these regs and it is a bit mindblowing but im hoping to find some info on the web or get a few good books on these things!
can you recommend any places of good reliable info for a learner?

Tbh mate, IMO u need to be taught it rather than just read it. Hope your course turns out to be adequate

 

[diamondgas]

First impressions ........ you have your head screwed on the right way Glenandem .... Want to do the job proper maybe .... I honestly have no idea what it's like to have to tick the boxes neccesary ..... good luck

 

[Simon F]

saying i could do my portfolio in ten days at their site?
can anyone give me any usefull info or books too that may help me out but firstly i could do with advice on the acs portfolio info as this ecta training company has confused me!!

If they say its possible,who knows? but 10 days doesn't give any time to retain the information.
Treloar is a good author, he does several books, the one I have covers plumbing and gas and makes for easy to understand reading.

 

[tamz]

Of course it is possible if they are offering it and if you have the money to spare you can have it. I could get the wife to pass her ACS next week if i needed to and all legit too but i wouldn't let her near a cooker unless she was using it to make my dinner.
The system is all wrong and open to abuse with nobody checking anything. There are ways around everything if you are smart enough or have enough spare cash.
After 10 days "intensive training" and getting your bit official paper that only makes you a mechanic/labourer with a bit paper in my eyes.

 

[Blumper]

...can't resist Mbear... 50cm2 ?...............17Kw - 7Kw for advantitious air = 10 x 5cm2 ?......off the top of me head...

 

[kirkgas]

...can't resist Mbear... 50cm2 ?...............17Kw - 7Kw for advantitious air = 10 x 5cm2 ?......off the top of me head...

if im being pedantic then i have to say 50cm2 is too big, (its all to do with my interpretation of the question) so as the telly is mince lets see who takes the bait to agree with me or not

 

[Mbear]

if im being pedantic then i have to say 50cm2 is too big, (its all to do with my interpretation of the question) so as the telly is mince lets see who takes the bait to agree with me or not

Correct. I make it (rounded up to) 46cm2

Edit anything above 42cm2 would be acceptable given the 90% rule if we''re being extra pedantic

 

[Blumper]

Ok......I thought I had this subject down...............evidently not. So plus or minus 90%, or even 10% for the purpose of max rating or whatever it is your fiddling with.........no matter how I work it I can't see where your getting 46cm2 from, rounded up or otherwise. Please explain............

 

[kirkgas]

Ok......I thought I had this subject down...............evidently not. So plus or minus 90%, or even 10% for the purpose of max rating or whatever it is your fiddling with.........no matter how I work it I can't see where your getting 46cm2 from, rounded up or otherwise. Please explain............

17-7x5=50cm2, however as per IUP if you measure the free air of a vent and it is more than 90% or the requirement then it can be deemed ok, so he is saying it needs 50 and if you have 42 the it is more than 90% therefore acceptable, (i dont agree with his amended figure of 42 as more than 45 is more than 90% of 50) but thats not how i interpretated the question, so i say his 42 & 46 and 50 are wrong, remember i work in training and we invented pedantic, and as i said its my interpretation of the question,
to get people onto my interpretation answer this "what are the min & max dimensions of a vent approved for using to supply combustion air to a gas appliance"?

 

[Hardy1]

owhhhhh i knowwww, can i ansa lol

 

[sparra1100]

17-7x5=50cm2, however as per IUP if you measure the free air of a vent and it is more than 90% or the requirement then it can be deemed ok, so he is saying it needs 50 and if you have 42 the it is more than 90% therefore acceptable, (i dont agree with his amended figure of 42 as more than 45 is more than 90% of 50) but thats not how i interpretated the question, so i say his 42 & 46 and 50 are wrong, remember i work in training and we invented pedantic, and as i said its my interpretation of the question,
to get people onto my interpretation answer this "what are the min & max dimensions of a vent approved for using to supply combustion air to a gas appliance"?

without reading or chacking any books ad have gone 50 aswell kirkgas didnt no there was any give on ventilation

 

[Blumper]

..........in that case the minimum size vent...for the purpose of this excersise at least, is 45.25cm2....... (90.5% of 50, as it is regarded as satisfactory if it is more than 90%, you could argue I suppose on 91%...!!)...........as for the minimum - maximum free area, 5 & 10mm respectively. So I would say the smallest possible air vent would consist of 181 holes of 5mm2 dimension = 45.25cm2......??

 

[jtsplumbing]

Some people on here need to get out more !! :8:

 

[Mbear]

Ok......I thought I had this subject down...............evidently not. So plus or minus 90%, or even 10% for the purpose of max rating or whatever it is your fiddling with.........no matter how I work it I can't see where your getting 46cm2 from, rounded up or otherwise. Please explain............

Ok
17kw gross divide by 1.11 = 15.31kw net
15.31 - 7 = 8.31 x 5 = 41.57cm2 ....
Then u could minus 10% = 37.41cm2

Or

17kw net -7 x 5 = 50cm2 -10% = 45cm2

It depends on interpretation of original question.
The original answer I asked the new guy would've been 50cm2 but it all got a bit pedantic lol

 

[Mbear]

Some people on here need to get out more !! :8:

This is true lol

 

[Blumper]

..so I was right in the first place.......and round here jtsplumbing, the boozers have wifi

 

[jtsplumbing]

Sorry blumper but we are only country bumkins just getting used to having electric lights, and flushing toilets not like you high flying fitters in the southeast! bet you even have soft toilet paper !! :toilet:

 

[Blumper]

...lol.........nah....haven't you heard, we've an iPad app for doing that now as well..........

 

[jtsplumbing]

Just as i thought Blumper, even got some-thing to wipe your backside, you guys in the SE have got it made, us old country boys still useing hand full of grass. (watch out for nettles)

 

[PlumbingBud]

I am coming towards the end of a 2-year level II plumbing tech cert. Our course tutor has told us the NVQ option is no longer available unless you are an apprentice.

I am looking to go onto level III next year which provides an introduction into gas appliances as well as more in depth look at cold water and central heating systems.
I am lucky as in a previous job I used to fit cookers, so have been on the gas safe register before (although it has now expired), meaning I can just re take my gas exams and get reigistered again.

However, for my fellow classmates looking to get into gas, they have been told the only route now is to take a 'Gas foundation course', which will cost in the region of £2500, which also requires the student to do 400 hours of supervised gas work with a registered engineer!

Unfortunately, the cost means it is now not really an option for most to go into gas unless they are apprenticed with a company.

....So to become gas registered with a 'Fast track' training company in 10 days or so, I would very much doubt.
I suspect you would be wasting your money.

Even on the basic plumbing level II we are finding many lads falling behind on coursework and failing exams.