Damsel in distress!!!!! ;-)

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have just hooked up a paint skuttle outside on copper pipe to see if any water is coming out although i havent been aware of any since the plumber cleaned the expansion vessel or pressure relief valve, cant remember which it was! lol....tiles that it would drip on to are always dry during the day so just incase its happening during the night I thought id be miss marple for the next day or two and do my own investigating! although I did just nearly break my neck when I fell off the ladder trying to hook it on! lol
 
fuzzy said:
They normally shut down at around half a bar not one? You can often set it at 1 when cold. obviously when it warms up the pressure increases. The pressure vessel is there to accomodate the expanded water. If it is broken then it over pressurises and the pressure relief valve will release all the expanded water. Then when it cools down it will be too low and a safety feature will not allow the boiler to fire again.

YOU need to fill to 1 bar cold. turn the boiler on at full heat and watch the presusre gauge. Does it creep up to over 3 bar? that will tell me alot. Let me know what happens. It will take 30minutes of your time to watch it heat up. Good luck and post your findings
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Re: Damsel in distress!!!!! ;-)
Hiya!...I fill it to approx 1 1/2 when I fill it....it goes up to roughly between 2 1/2 and 3 when been on ages!.....;-)
me again!... thanks for that! will get my dad to check tomorrow when he comes!....once the pressure was as high as just over 4 on the gauge!....I read in the manual that it is supposed to have an automatic cut out on the boiler at 4 but it didnt!!!!!......I really am having a nightmare with Homeserve over this....they've even told me not to bother them again about a problem that isnt down to the boiler!!!!!! :-

Boiler isnt losing pressure when "cold", My original opinion hasnt changed, Expansion vessel. Without looking at it though I cant be 100% sure.
 
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havent used hot water for over a week and pressure didnt drop....just thought id put it to the test and ran a bath.... bet you know what im gona say all of you!....boiler shut down as soon as I started running the hot water! :-( thing is, the pressure remains at around 1 1/4!!!
 
kerry said:
havent used hot water for over a week and pressure didnt drop....just thought id put it to the test and ran a bath.... bet you know what im gona say all of you!....boiler shut down as soon as I started running the hot water! :-( thing is, the pressure remains at around 1 1/4!!!
Click to expand...

It may not be the pressure leading to the problem. If the water to water heat exchanger is blocked up it could overheat when running the hot tap and maybe shut of on the overheat stat? Should be a clue that it only happens when you use the hot water

Anyone else any ideas?
 
fuzzy said:
It may not be the pressure leading to the problem. If the water to water heat exchanger is blocked up it could overheat when running the hot tap and maybe shut of on the overheat stat? Should be a clue that it only happens when you use the hot water

Anyone else any ideas?
Click to expand...

I think you have nailed the initial problem i.e. pressure vessel and Kerry needs to carryout the checks to confirm is faulty before suggesting any other solution. Its quite possible that this fault has now created a new problem with the hot water so before anything else you should confirm the expansion vessel is ok.

There is nothing worse than running a boiler that you know has a problem, its not going to do the boiler any good refilling it with fresh water all the time too.

I know you have tried to get them guys to fix it but you really should eliminate the expansion vessel fault as soon as possible.

Hope that helps.
 
hi all!...thanks for that Phil!

Today I'd just had enough of the whole thing and couldn't take much more so decided to get back on the Phone to Homeserve/Glow Worm!....why should I have all this stress and bother when I pay those to do a job.....anyway, after speaking to around 5 different people that refused to tell me their managers name I told them that I was recording our conversation and that it was in their best interest to put me through to someone in authority!....wasnt recording it but it did the trick! lol.....once again I had to explain the whole damn thing and the longer I was on the phone the more worked up I got!....I told the woman if they are so convinced I have a leak in the the system to come and and prove it!....She was speechless but really had no choice but to agree because I wouldnt let her!.....she said that all three of the plumbers said there was no prob with the boiler and I asked her how they could possibly know that as the last two didnt even remove the boiler casing! she actually couldnt believe what I was telling her and said that she would get a plumber to me to check expansion vessel and heat exchanger properly (ye, right!) and that if they still said the boiler wasnt faulty they would turn off the boiler and do some 24 hour test on the system to see if it was leaking!.....this time im not gona be here alone to deal with them though, ive asked my brother to be there to deal with them because their attitudes towards me and the way they spoke to me in my own home was terrible and I just don't want it again. It wouldnt normally bother me, I can hold my own with anyone but im not well and id prefer to avoid any confrontation really. Ive had to reschedule their appointment for tomorrow to next friday because my brother has other commitments but I will keep you all posted as to what happens!.....I cant wait for them to tell me where this leak is that's not there! lol.....its probably best they dont see me because i dont think id be able to contain my temper again!.....cant believe that this company has got me so wound up, its just ridiculous and beyond a joke now!.....ive also told them that unless I get a satisfactory outcome I will contact Watchdog for certain! lol.....although I laugh, that is actually something that I may well do.......right, im sure ive bored you all enough, you'll be sick to death of me before long.....hope you dont mind me keep picking your brains, cant thank you enough for all your continuing kind help, thanks, Kerry
 
thanks Pete, something tells me Im gona need it!....if no joy will still do the things you've suggested but just want them to point out to me where this leak is....I just want to prove a point! will let you know, Kerry ;-)
 
Right, the Plumber from Homeserve/Glow Worm has just been and once again im left disgusted with his apparent lack of Plumbing knowledge! He tested the PRV, Expansion Vessel and Heat exchanger and said they were all ok. When I asked him what he thought the prob could possibly be he said I havent a clue to be honest!. He did tell me that the none return valve on the filling loop is faulty and when he removed it a load of water came out like one of you suggested it might if that was faulty! He didnt seem to know much more about that and if when we replace it would it rectify my problem? He spoke to a colleague of his on the phone and he told him to reduce boiler shut down pressure to 1 bar because it has been going off at 1 1/4. But, get this! He didnt have a clue how to reduce the pressure and the phone a friend had to explain!!!!!!! he phoned him up on several occasions asking advice! As you can imagine I didnt have any confidence in this guy at all! Then, when hed done that he was going to leave and told me he would come back to do a test on the system to make sure it isnt that that was leaking but could I wait a month to call him back because otherwise theyd note it down that he had failed to sort the prob if we called him back before thirty days! he also suggested that it would be warmer then to not have the heating on which I agree with but this wasnt his proper reason behind him suggesting that! He was just getting in his van when I noticed that the outside copper pipe was chucking water out! I called him back and he made it blatantly obvious he wasnt happy! I said, why dont you just replace the expansion vessel because we have had a prob with it previously but he just said lets just see how it goes and if you're still getting the boiler prob after ive reduced the pressure and youve put a new filling loop on just ring up and ill come back and do it then! From the help you guys have been giving me I honestly believe I know more about this than that excuse for a Plumber does and im not kidding! So, once again im picking your brains! lol.....because when he removed the filling loop there was water coming out could this have been a possible cause for the pressure dropping on the boiler and shutting off? I asked him what his opinion was about this and he said, to be honest I really dont have a clue!!!!!!!!....If you're reading this Pete, thanks for your kind help and you were right about the possiblility of water in the filling loop, nice one and thanks for taking the time to ring and explain all this to me but also, thanks to all of you genius's out there, I wouldnt have been able to hold my own talking about expansion vessels, prv's, heat exchangers etc if you hadnt all of helped me! Its been like hitting my head up against a brick wall, it really has! Im kind of hoping that replacing the filling loop will sort the prob but would appreciate any views on this when you have a spare minute! thanks again, Kerry ;-)
 
Hi Kerri,

Been viewing this as a unknowledgeable bystander. Really think you have grounds to go to Trading Standards or better still Watchdog. You have been treated shoddily.

Glyn
 
hi, me again! Finally the boiler problem has been solved!!!!!!! Ye, it's been ages, I know but until recently the pressure was continuing to drop every few days or so and still useless 'so called' Homeserve Plumbers useless! Was by pure luck that I found out. I switched boiler insurance to Eon instead and it was on his initial assessment that he said something that made me think. He went outside to look at the gas box and he looked up at the condensation pipe and said, 'does that look straight to you?' I said, yes, why? He said, 'ye, that's what I thought but it should be at a slight incline because otherwise the water will just fall backwards'. Then he said, 'Im surprised you arent losing pressure on your boiler'! Now, obviously I didn't tell him that it was in fact losing pressure because for them to insure you there can't be any probs when they check the system (or so im told) so I kept shtum! lol. All we did was put the white condensation pipe at a slight angle and BINGO! So far the boiler has remained at a constant pressure for some time! JUST WANTED TO COME BACK ON HERE AND THANK ALL OF YOU FOR YOUR CONTINUING HELP AND SUPPORT.....CAN'T THANK YOU ENOUGH! Obviously none of you would have know that the pipe wasn't fitted correctly but I just thought you might like to know that FINALLY things are on the up! THANKS GUYS! Kerry
 
it cant do this the only way a condensate pipe would have a bearing is if the main heat exchanger or on a band b recupirater had failed
 
Instead of taking out an insurance policy with any of the growing number of "Homecare" companies,put the money in a separate account and use it to pay a decent independent engineer like the ones on this forum.

Eon,BG,SP,even the bloody AA now,who's next???!!!
 
AA only does boilers now coz they can no longer fix modern cars, only tow them to a garage!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
unless its a ideal and the aa landrover will drive over it crushing it flat
 
cant wait for tecos valueline boilers to come onto the shelves, all red and blue stripes etc
 
Back on topic, how can a condensate pipe put in level or with a slight backflow cause a boiler to lose pressure?
 
Surely this was the discharge and not the condensate?? Still nothing to do with being straight or level though???
 
The angle of the condensate pipe being wrong can't be the cause of pressure loss from the boiler,it doesn't make sense. The condensate pipe takes away waste water from the boiler,it can't re-enter the system and affect pressure.

The problem you've been having exhibits all the signs of a failed or weakly charged expansion vessel,maybe now that the weather has improved and the demand on the system has eased,the problem has disappeared. All it would take to confirm this is a pressure check on the vessel,it takes 30 seconds,and should have been one of the first things to be checked.

Good that it's working now however,hope it stays that way.
 
Firstly, it most definitely wasn't the expansion vessel. It has been checked and checked and checked! Secondly, my boiler is left on 24 hours and set at quite a high temp, even now because its left on for pets so I know that's not right either. Its never off. Nothing else has been altered on the boiler or on the pipe work. It isn't a load of bull either and actually I take exception to people saying that because what had been causing me huge problems for nearly two years is most definitely not causing me problems any more and it was from the day we altered the angle of the pipe and nothing else. That boiler has been thoroughly checked more than once. Wasn't heat exchanger or expansion vessel or valve. Sorry, but on this occasion this guy was right. He wasn't actually at my house because of the problem. He was just checking that the system looked ok for other reasons. I've actually paid five different plumbers to rectify the problem and not one of them did. I understand why you are doubtful but this did rectify it and thanks.....I too hope it remains that way. ;-)
 
still dont get it kerry, we are trying to establish how the angle of the condensate pipe would affect the system pressure?
 
It is not possible that the 2 points are related. The drain is totaly seperate from the water ways.

If the heat exchanger were leaking it would run to the drain and loose pressure. Adjusting the drain will make no difference to loss of pressure.

Back fall on the drain could cause water to backup to the boiler causing it to cut out. But there would be no loss in system pressure.

Main thing is, what ever the cause it sounds like the problem is solved.
 
Ye, fingers crossed! Its been fine for quite some time now and I know what some of you are saying but seriously, nothing else has been changed regarding the boiler or the pipework so you can see where Im coming from in my reasoning behind it now working ok since the white condensation pipe was altered. This guy wasn't aware even that I had a problem with the boiler. He did in fact say that the water would back up to the boiler but he couldn't understand why I wasn't losing pressure on it. I was losing pressure but I didn't want him to know that because they wouldn't have insured me if there was a problem. I can understand how frustrating it must be for some of you keep hearing me say that DID solve the problem, really I do but the reality is that I no longer have that problem so there is only one conclusion I can form. I even got someone to rip up solid oak floor because Homeserve plumbers, approx 6 different people over a period of time told me that I most definitely had a leak in the system and yet there was no leak whatsoever but I felt I had to investigate because they were convinced and the problem wasnt going away. They didn't come back with a cheque for the floor when they got it wrong though! They just didn't want to know and unbelievably the last guy that came said he couldnt solve the problem and asked me if Id wait a month or so before I called them out again because he would have to come back as an incomplete job and he didn't want to!!!! How some of them can call themselves Plumbers is beyond me. I even had to explain to one of them how to work the boiler because he really hadn't got a clue, lol. Oh ye, and one of them nicked the instruction manual to the boiler so now I don't have one, lol, unbelievable....... Ya gotta laugh really. Apologies if any of you think I'm ranting on about an area that clearly isn't my field but I can only go on the evidence, so I'm sticking to my guns and I'm afraid nobody will convince me otherwise, lol. He was the only person that got to the bottom of this for me, although I have had tons of help and ideas from people which I'm so so grateful for but I think I'd have to stick my money on him.....up to now anyway. Obviously the water was backing up the boiler which would cause the boiler to cut out. As for the pressure also dropping.....I haven't a clue but something caused the pressure to drop each time this happend, I just don't know yet what but I'm making it a mission to find out, lol. Possible fault with the boiler even making the pressure drop when its cut out....who knows. I mean...is it possible for the gauge to show that the pressure had dropped (due to a fault) but in reality it hadn't dropped at all and that the only reason the boiler had cut out was due to water backed up to the boiler? That's probably a really stupid thing to say so go easy on me .....please! Anyway, I'm sure you've all had enough of me rambling on, lol. Thank you :)
 
Hi Kerri

I have read through all the posts and (somewhat sadly) I have to say that I am really intrigued by the sequence of events. I am a boiler engineer and one of the things I love about my job is that you never stop learning.

If you do have the time I would appreciate it if you could answer the following questions about your experience with this fault.

1. When you say that the pressure kept dropping did it drop all the way to zero?
2. In one of your posts you said thath the H/S engineer altered the pressure at which the PRV operated has this action been reversed?
3. Some Glow worm boilers have an LCD display on the front which gives a fault code if the boiler fails, does your boiler have this and what fault codes did you get?
4. Condensate pipework is notorious for freezing up, is it possible that some of your breakdowns were due to frozen condensate during the recent cold spell?
5. I have known primary heat exchangers to have small leaks which are only evident when the boiler is hot. When cold there is a very tiny leak, when the boiler heats up, the metal expands and the tiny leak gets worse. These faults can go undiagnosed as any water found inside the combustion chamber is considered to be condensate. Unfortunately the only way to chack for this is to remove the heat exchanger and test it in isolation.

With all that said I genuinely hope that the situation is resolved and maybe the true cause will always remain a mystery.

Good luck

Raymondo
 
Am just pleased you have got sorted out Kerry and keeping my fingers and toes crossed it stays that way

Thanks for all your input
:)
 
Below are answers to the questions from yesterday. Really appreciate your help, thanks ever so!

1. Pressure dropped and boiler cut out as soon as the pressure dropped to 1.

2. I've no idea if the pressure has been reversed. One of the plumbers who had to check the boiler over did reset it so im afraid only you would know if that would have put things back to their original state, I haven't a clue.

3. Sorry, no LCD input screen on the boiler.

4. No, this happened whether it was summer or winter im afraid.

5. Interesting! and should the problem arise again this is something I will definitely get checked out, thanks for that!

Thanks to you all, you're stars! Kerry
 
Generally, if the expansion vessel is faulty, the pressure will rise and water will come out of the pressure relief valve when the heating is on and drop right down when the heating is off.If you are losing pressure and there is no water coming out of the P.R.V. then I would say you have a leak somewhere. If you are paying Homeserve for their services, they should sort the problem out for you, not keep fobbing you off! Get in touch with theiir customer services and make a complaint.
 
Don't mind me while I reply to a few of the threads. We need the new thread pages to be picked up correctly. If this thread isn't current, just visit the plumbing forum and post your own new thread or checkout the other existing threads.
 
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