Is it a direct or indirect hot water cylinder?

[cosmicnur]

hi, my first post , and I need some advice on trying the idetify what type of hot water cylinder I need to replaced a very old one that has been removed by special asbestos company.
1. I cant find a separate feed/ expansion tank ,
2. the gas boiler only heats water and no rads
3. pipe connectios are, A) top flange 28mm. B) 6 Inches down from flange 22mm. C) 6inches from bottom of tank 28mm. D) two 15mm pipes in imersion aperture 4 inches from top flange

4. there is a circ pump and motor valve near gas boiler.
5. this in a very old guest house on 3 floors in Edinburgh city centre and the pipe maze is really bad, lots of botch jobs over the decades
6.no expansion pipe hooked over cold water storage tank in loft

any help would b real good. thanx and regards

 

[Puddle]

Seems like Indirect
The heating coil will be the two 15mm pipes in immersion heater slot, top pipe top hot taps bottom pipe cylinder feed, pipe 6" down from top of cylinder could be another feed to showers or if old guest house ,maybe secondary return for hot water to increase storage capacity of hot water and allow quick draw off temp increase
There will be a header tank some were ,or it could be a corner wall vessel ,topped up by hand or could be pressurised, could be a small expansion vessel, gauge, fill up point and pr somewhere
If only doing hot water, do not know why you have a motorised valve, unless, maybe, this side has been disconnected in the past sometime

 

[justlead1]

Hi. Check that the 15 mm pumped F&R connections are connected to a heat rod (or alike) it a heat exchanger that screws into the imersion heater boss. Turning a direct cylinder into an indirect. (An easy way to convert an existing cylinder, but not the best) Good Luck

 

[cosmicnur]

thanx for reply. I have never seen this before as I have worked doing small repair jobs but have replaced many indirect cylinders. this very old cylider was covered with bad flaking asbestos, the asbostos company made it safe so I could drain down the cylinder and cut and cap pipes, they then wraped the whole thing up in lyers of cling film put it in a wooden box and removed it from the building.
still trying to understand both your comments, maybe this job is to much for my skill level?
thanx

the two 15mm pipes were connected into the immersion slot and the guest house owner top me all the showers in the rooms are electric heated. the old cyliner and gas boiler supply hot water only and no heating circut.
Is it easy to get a replacement cylinder for this installation ?
I will ask and search the building for expansion tank / vessel
thanx again for you knowledge

 

[tamz]

Just get an indirect cylinder as a replacement. Connect the two 15mm pipes that went to the blade onto the coil.
As Justlead said the existing was a direct cylinder converted to an indirect by fitting a hot rod or salamander blade into the immersion boss. VERY common in the 80's.
All the showers in the rooms may be electric but the hot water to every tap in the building certainly wasn't. It came from the cylinder. That is why the motorised valve is there. If there is only one valve it will be on the heating side. Sometimes they had one of those cyltrol valves on the HW side, sometimes nothing, but that is irrelevant. Its the refitting of the pipes that matter.
If you are doing this for a living you should be able to figure it out, even if you have never seen one.
Maybe this one is beyond your capabilities.

 

[Puddle]

If you are doing this for a living you should be able to figure it out, even if you have never seen one.
Maybe this one is beyond your capabilities.

Bit harsh Tamz



we have all been on a learning curve,not going to learn much by stepping back all the time,nice to have a forum like this to fall back on sometimes

 

[tamz]

Bit harsh Tamz

Not really. It is not hard to figure out even if he has never seen one. We are only talking 4 pipes, 2 of which are a no brainer so what must the two 1/2" be for. Seconary returns to the electric showers.
It is stuff you would expect a first year apprentice to grasp.

nice to have a forum like this to fall back on sometimes

A bit more than we had, our rear end

I've edited the last bit myself

not going to learn much by stepping back all the time

There certainly isn't. I learned quickest when i was young by my mistakes and boy did i make some beuties but it was all at my expense doing homers for sweetie money for friends and relations
It's a bit different scenario from getting an apprentice in to do jobs where no one expects him to know everything or leave a top job. This is probably (could be wrong) a customer paying the going rate for a professional job.

 

[cosmicnur]

thanx for the reply tamz, dont mind any comments as long as they help me build up my knowledge base. The pipe 6 inches down from the top of the cylinder Puddle has indicated may be a secondary return for hot water. What really confused me was no feed/ expansion tank and no expansion pipe hooked over cold water storage tank in the loft.
I only charge beer money for the small jobs I do , so as to build up my skill/ knowledge levels.
thanx again for all the comments, brill that this fourm exists

 

[Spudhater]

Primatic cylinder by any chance !

 

[tamz]

It won't be a primatic with a blade fitted. The boss on the side is standard for a direct cylinder. It is used for direct heating of the water from eg a copper circulator although it can also be used for a secondary return.
If there is no expansion tank it is possibly a sealed system. Follow the pipes you will find something. Could also be fed through a Spartan (small copper cylinder fitted to the draw off, works like a primatic). How did you drain it?
There will be an expansion pipe. It will go out through the roof. Look up for a swan neck.

 

[cosmicnur]

it had no drain cocks fitted to any of the pipework. managed to drain it by syphion hose going into top flange opening, first turned of main cold water stopcock. will have a look for swan neck on the roof,
thanx a lot for your help

 

[andyg0507]

cosmicnur, why dont you take some pictures of the cylinder and post them on here.

 

[Spudhater]

cosmicnur, why dont you take some pictures of the cylinder and post them on here.

nudge,nudge,wink,wink

 

[cosmicnur]

got it sorted , thanx for all your help

 

[tamz]

As long as you learned something