Why dont the goverment help?

[Winston]

Why is it we see many including myself attend courses and many course providers say about lack of plumbers and so on. Why dont the goverment regulate this and why dont the goverment provide incentives for companies to take people on.

And why is it that when I have heard of companies take people on as soon as they qualify there off, where is the loyalty in that? And why is it plumbing companies if they do provide training make the person pay if they leave within a time limit like other businesses do?

 

[Phil]

I still amazes me that these course providers are still saying there's a shortage of plumbers, take a look at this rubbish.

[DLMURL="http://www.newcareerskills.co.uk/plumbing-skills-shortage-plumber.htm"]New Career Skills - Skills Shortgage[/DLMURL]

 

[Bernie2]

Hi Winston

Companies sometimes do make you pay if you leave to soon before they have had their training money back off you.

Companies once did pay for training, but in the 80's slump they could not afford too, so as far as I know stopped virtually all training and saved CITB and possible other training levies. The thing is the government then privatized training and we got what we got today.

It a mess.

Training should be free for those wanting to join the industry and then they pay a levy once trained. But you would have to set levels. Imagine if everybody who wanted to earn what the government said was £30,000 a year as a Plumber applied to be trained for free? There would probably be millions.

Industrial training all needs looking at and new sensible training schemes brought in.

 

[newbie1]

Why is it we see many including myself attend courses and many course providers say about lack of plumbers and so on. Why dont the goverment regulate this and why dont the goverment provide incentives for companies to take people on.

And why is it that when I have heard of companies take people on as soon as they qualify there off, where is the loyalty in that? And why is it plumbing companies if they do provide training make the person pay if they leave within a time limit like other businesses do?

because all the money goes on supplying housing and benefits for all the lazy toe rags that see the uk as the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow
why do you think they are queing up in france to come here france etc are all free states with democratic govts but they all want to come here because they can milk the system so you me and every other worker here can give them our hard earned so they can have a better life
meanwhile screw the rest of the poor sods who have lived and paid taxes and now find themselves on the scrap heap here
this country and govt are a joke

 

[Winston]

I do think the goverment need to address this not just for this industry but many. If they dont encourage to get businesses to take on and train new blood the businesses will fail, its all short term.

Businesses need to look to the future to continue to grow and be succsessful. Its the same old thing with manufacturing we make nothing these days, we have become a nation of service providers. Which is always the first to be hit in a reccession.

Why cant the goverment, provide tax cuts for employing apprentices, subsidisation towards training.

 

[bobpape]

It seems any progress you or our country makes is not "because of" politicians/government but "in spite of"

 

[Hugh]

far to many plumbers in the uk, just look at the cut throat business we are in everyman with a tool box and a box of washers is callin himself a plumber every body fighting for the same piece of bread things will never last!

 

[Beeline]

If our inadequate government decided to subsidise wages, insurance, holiday and sick pay etc, I would gladly take on more than one apprentice.
As things are currently It's far to great a risk for me and could even send me out of business.
I'd like to see a national policy of honesty in advertising.
I'd like to see our government TAKING back (by force if needed) the millions these fat directors are raping from our businesses and taking abroad away from taxes while us little men keep paying Taxes for lazy useless immigrants.
I'd like to see a national maximum wage.
I'd like to see OUR country back to how it used to be... Bob pap hit the nail on the head.
Just a cpl of weeks ago my Gas safe inspector told me he tried to have an engineer struck off the register, but the bosses told him he cant... The mess has only just begun.

 

[TGor]

The govt won't help .. your'e on your own!! successive govt's have steered this country into a financial services base and f'd up a solid manufacturing base .. global economy my a'rs

OK I am a dinosaur by definition and when I did my 5 years I went to college 1 day release and 3 nights each week = 14 hours per week x 40 weeks x 5years + 4 & 8 hour exams total of abt 3000 hours.
If I missed a night I didn't get paid for the day.

This has now been reduced to what? I dunno! but the thing is there is so much more to learn that there was back then. I think it's like learning to drive .. in fact you learn to pass the driving test and then you learn to drive .. I know a lot of plumbing teachers who do a great job and I know some training providers who don't .. the term "fast track" does not apply to plumbing... So anybody taking on the noble art today has to be prepared to pass the test and then start to learn. It is sad that employers are loth to take on trainees but times are tough and of course everyman and his dog can be a "Plumber" in the UK.

I sympathise with people who are conned into parting with hard earned readies or even borrow money to attend these training courses on the basis of wild claims. I know, I did the same thing.. parted with heaps for a level 4 NVQ that was going nowhere thanks to a gov't who promised substantial earnings for those qualifying. But my philosophy has always been "If someone sells you a lemon .. make lemonade!!"

The best thing that the govt could do is to regulate plumbers and squeeze out the cowboys ..but they won't so as I said your on your own!!

Sorry!

 

[Winston]

Well not all fast trackers are cowboys though I just want to earn a living and provide good service, but I know my limitations.

 

[TGor]

Well not all fast trackers are cowboys,

I agree entirely .. as evidenced by some of the posts on here. So the comment wasn't aimed at you or them. Cowboys are those who have no training or qualication at all but present themselves to the public as "Plumbers" or any trade for that matter.

though I just want to earn a living and provide good service, but I know my limitations.

and good luck to you in that endeavour .. knowing how to expand your experience and thus your limitations is a firm basis to build on.

The point is that successive goverments despite many representations over the years will not do anything to regulate the trade and refuse to protect the public from such people .. its a disgrace!

 

[Plouasne]

Maybe slightly off-topic, but has anyone noticed that most the regulated "trades" are those that need or needed Latin to be part and parcel of the spoken and written language, Doctors, Lawyers, and to some extent Accountants, I once asked my aunt who was an old style hospital matron why the doctors and medical profession used a dead language to communicate in, she replied, it was because the doctors did not want the patients to know exactly what was wrong with them, because it might upset them.
Now turning this on its head, could it be that its the Lawyers, and to a lesser extent Doctors, who make up a good part of the government, want to keep this "closed shop" as it were, to keep the "riff-raff" in their place, and that is why they refuse to legislate to allow "common" plumbers, gas fitters, and electricians, the same status as them, in their eyes.

[I can see it now, cannot let them get above their station in life can we now, after all "they work with their hands", whereas we work with our heads]

 

[TGor]

Maybe slightly off-topic, but has anyone noticed that most the regulated "trades" are those that need or needed Latin to be part and parcel of the spoken and written language, Doctors, Lawyers, and to some extent Accountants, I once asked my aunt who was an old style hospital matron why the doctors and medical profession used a dead language to communicate in, she replied, it was because the doctors did not want the patients to know exactly what was wrong with them, because it might upset them.
Now turning this on its head, could it be that its the Lawyers, and to a lesser extent Doctors, who make up a good part of the government, want to keep this "closed shop" as it were, to keep the "riff-raff" in their place, and that is why they refuse to legislate to allow "common" plumbers, gas fitters, and electricians, the same status as them, in their eyes.

[I can see it now, cannot let them get above their station in life can we now, after all "they work with their hands", whereas we work with our heads]

I think its something like that but more to do with trust .. they prefer to develop a highly prescriptive regulatory framework (which as you point out in another post is contradictory) in preference to allowing the trade to become professional and control itself like doctors,lawyers and even surveyors do.

 

[dontknowitall]

Nil desperandum. Ipsa scientia potestas est.
Never despair. Knowledge itself is power.

**** plumba es optimus
Plumbers are the best.

 

[Winston]

Tell you what does help customer just been round to drop off a cheque for the work I did and has given me a £75 tip

Going to invest in my next new tool

 

[Plouasne]

I think its something like that but more to do with trust .. they prefer to develop a highly prescriptive regulatory framework (which as you point out in another post is contradictory) in preference to allowing the trade to become professional and control itself like doctors,lawyers and even surveyors do.

To be honest, they could not organise the proverbial in a brewery, they would be asking where the "ladies" were, they either gold plate the regs or make a complete mess of them, sorry if its considered off topic, but its the best way I can describe what has happened in the UK and how they can "bend" the regs or forget them, I have had experience of both sides of the channel, by being a meat wagon driver in France, and my brother being a butcher in west London

In France all animals have to be ear tagged, from birth, with details recorded in a "passport" this goes with the animal, to go with the animal to other farms, and then slaughterhouse, then especially with cow meat all the bits are marked with a bar code so that the meat can be traced right back to the animals home farm and mother, if there is a problem, in the UK, where my brother works, steaks come down from Scotland in boxes maybe steaks from 6 different cows, so how the hell can they trace back any problems

Now to get back on topic, something along these lines could be put in place for gas appliances, just a bar code scanned in when the product is sold on from maker, to wholesaler, to merchant, then when its sold to the client installer, the name and address is recorded, and sent via the internet to a central office, so that the entire chain could be traced, the installer could record the installation via the internet, as well, this is the way some of it is done in France, the installers have there log in number they down load the e-form, fill in the details and send it back, it should take no more time than reading this posting if not less

 

[Winston]

Makes sense to me I am afraid I still dont understand how any retail outlet can legitimatley sell items which say must be installed by a qualified gas engineer, in my eyes its madness.

You get questioned if your buying a solvent or buying a knife, but of course you can buy a hose for your gas cooker, and a thermal gas regulator or whatever you gas guys n girls need.

yer buy a boiler cheap as chips of flea bay its all bonkers. No son you dont look old enough for the fireworks! What do they think the oven is going to do