- Thread starter southcoastboile
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Discuss So fed up with ignorant customers in the Plumbing Jobs | The Job-board area at PlumbersForums.net
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W
Wet dream
That said my friend is all ways busy. And in 18 years he has only lost £800 in bad debts where as I have lost in excess of 18k. He takes deposit and full payment before leaving property. I just don't see to have the balls to do it for some reason. As you may tell it is something we have been talking about lately
W
Wet dream
You need a min charge and confirm this before going to job if your serious
L
lame plumber
had the normal one today, oil boiler needs a service, next thursday at 0900 says I, oh,can you come at 4.30 as we are both teachers, when was it last serviced says I? on bout 3 or 4 years ago says she. My little cell in the head whirrs for a bit, 4.30 and no service for years will mean late home that day, so NO thanks. do you work weekends says she, do you says I of course not says she, you all know my reply 
my question about 3 weeks holiday and planning ahead failed to enlist a response bar a click of the phone dropping, seems I didnt need that sort of customer this year
my question about 3 weeks holiday and planning ahead failed to enlist a response bar a click of the phone dropping, seems I didnt need that sort of customer this year
M
Mike Jackson
I had something similar. I turned up to look at a job and was wandering up and down the street looking for the place. I noticed another guy wandering about aimlessly as well. Turns out he was looking for the place as well. We teamed up and found the place. I was flat out at the time and the other guy was going through a quiet patch so I told him what price I would be quoting so that he could go lower if he wanted. No point falling out with other plumbers over things like this I've possibly got a few jobs to do for him because he's got some customers that want LPG boilers put in and he's only got NG.
had the normal one today, oil boiler needs a service, next thursday at 0900 says I, oh,can you come at 4.30 as we are both teachers, when was it last serviced says I? on bout 3 or 4 years ago says she. My little cell in the head whirrs for a bit, 4.30 and no service for years will mean late home that day, so NO thanks. do you work weekends says she, do you says I of course not says she, you all know my reply
my question about 3 weeks holiday and planning ahead failed to enlist a response bar a click of the phone dropping, seems I didnt need that sort of customer this year
I can see the frustration of the times being awkward, but as a one man band or small business, flexibility can get you jobs off the big companies who only work 9-5. I regularly book in evening appointments etc and as such have very loyal customers. If you are busy enough to be able to turn work away and pick and choose jobs that's fine and good luck to you, but for people starting out this attitude wont get you very far.
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Ah but theres flexibility and people extracting the urine. If its truly a service then no hurry but through tbe day at a convenient time to both. I would do a service on a saturday morning. A breakdown is on my terms. If somebody cant be available on my schedule to have heating and hot water then they can stay cold and dirty.
But it does depend on your own position. Starting out or not a lot on then you will be flexible. Works steady and you like your family, then all bets are off.
I like the fact that I'm busy, have a good customer base and I am comfortable saying no. Saying no takes a lot of getting to.
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Sometimes doing an emergency job at after hours, weekends or, say Christmas eve, can win you friends as the customer (especially if they were a stranger) will often tell everyone they can about how you helped them.
Trouble is you are only brilliant in people's eyes until you fail to jump to their next demand some day & then many will not want to know you.
Trouble is you are only brilliant in people's eyes until you fail to jump to their next demand some day & then many will not want to know you.
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Ray Stafford
But isn't that what being in a service industry is all about? You are as good as your customers last experience of you.
An old mentor of mine used to say "There is no such thing as a customer list. What you have is a list of people who used you last month. You have to win their business again tomorrow, next week and next month. Never assume that they are your customer - the moment that you do, you are half way to losing them."
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MarieHigham
I don't see why it is "alarming" that not everyone followed you through the door?!
If you're hungry, you're hungry and will quote for the work. I don't see it being rude, at the end of the day when visiting a customer or potential customer you're there to give a quote it is essentially tendering for work. What is the difference between giving a quote infront of other customers and tendering for work online?
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What would you think of an estate agent who, after accepting your offer on a house, then continued to offer the property up for sale to 4/5 other propective buyers and you got "guzzumped" then you offered a bit more and got gazzumped again and again effectively creating an auction?
I would think you'd be a bit..... miffed, to say the least
But you're saying that we (as in plumbers, heating eng's etc) should be happy to stand in a room and bid each other down, its something I will never do
Some quotes you may have a bit of room for negotiation, but not all
Pay peanuts, expect monkeys
I have been hungry for work and still look on any new customer as 'gold dust.'However I am pretty sure I would not have even got inside and would certainly have walked had I done so.I wouldn't necessarily blame anyone who stayed,that is their choice.
However the question you have to ask is 'What sort of customers are you looking for?'I was going through some old paperwork the other day and saw a number of old ,failed quotes.The things that they had in common were,they were very cheap as I was finding it hard to get work and that even then they were not cheap enough for these customers who had one thing in common ,it was all about price.As is often pointed out in the forum there are customers who value you and your work and those who would drop you for a £5 or because you can't get to them immediately.A customer who had the bloody cheek to get 5 plumbers there at the same time was rude and brave.It is a wonder they were not shaken warmly by the throat!In effect they had wasted 4 people's time travelling there.It isn't the same as ringing for a ballpark figure.In any case ,even that is largely a waste of time because a good tradesman needs to see the job but not with 4 others!!!You will find that price obsessed customers are often a waste of time.
T
TBServices
I'd have walked. I'd never have been the cheapest, and in that situation, it would be impossible to win the job by any other means than being cheap.
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Ray Stafford
How many of you guys have, at any point, sent a list of materials to a range of merchants, and then played one off against the other?
How many of you have ordered something, and put your supplier to the trouble of organising it, and then cancelled because you have found a cheaper or better solution elsewhere?
This is is just normal customer behaviour in almost any field. If you run a business then you have to accept that your aspirations and motivations are not the same as your customers'. Sure, you can set up policies and procedures to lessen the impact on you, but there is no point in getting uptight about it. Its just a risk of business life.
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Totally agree with that, but if you do work of the highest quality & at low cost for a customer & they then selfishly suddenly insist you do an unnecessary job for them immediately just because they have decided they want something replaced, I would prefer to let them look around.
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We all do price around, but there sometimes is a difference between people getting several plumbers to price, say a heating job & plumbers getting prices from different merchants. By this I mean, if I price the identical products from different merchants, then I will get the same products at the cheapest cost, but people getting different quotes from plumbers using identical materials will not get the same standard of workmanship from each plumber that quotes.
That said, some merchants will be better to deal with, stock better & deliver etc than others. I always like to treat merchants with respect, be honest with them & tell them if they are too expensive & not waste their time if possible.
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Ray Stafford
Same principle applies though.
The job cconsists of labour and materials. Assuming that the materials are constant, the difference is between the quality of the workmanship in the case of choosing an installer, and the quality of service in the case of choosing a merchant.
Yes I take your point ray there are two sides to the coin and do see yours but one point to note is how many merchants have let down there customer's .I have got the price for the materials while at the counter only to have received a tottaly diffrent price at my month end invoice ,these things are a fact of life it's just business.
As with a lot of threads on here this one has thrown up some interesting replies.In my earlier post I highlighted the fact that a lot of ignorant customers of all social classes are price obsessed and that are therefore not the sort of customers you want ,unless fairly,desperate.In an ideal world you have a customer/tradesman relationship based on trust.They have confidence in you as a person,the quality of your work and if you can't drop everything for them ,except in a real emergency ,they will wait.Many of mine and their referrals trust my pricing and we both are not offended by an 'Is there room to shave it a little bit?'However Ray does make a fair point regarding not taking a customer for granted.
Rays point about merchant /tradesman pricing is interesting.It is true to the extent that we all try to get a good deal.What I have learned is that if I give virtually all my business to one merchant,in my case a national one,I get their best price and they even tell me where they are uncompetitive if I need a certain make of boiler.For the convenience of top service and one or two 'sweeteners' re-jobs I would not ditch them for a few quid on certain items.I am aware of internet prices and if they do their best it is much better to stay local.It is a pleasure to go share a cuppa.In other words ,I hope I am not an ignorant customer.I try to be the customer I expect to do work for.A bit Mary Poppins but it works for me.
I do see your point the customers always king, if you ring someone to come and price a job you should have the courtesy to tell them that there will be other plumbers there and you will want a bidding war for the best price ,this is not unreasonable to want the best price but who would turn up knowing that ? If they attend then they know what is required.it is unfair to waste people's time especially if they are self employed sole traders time is money to them.
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Dont mind quoting but that situation is ridiculous. Somebody might just have been treat to a knuckle sandwich for my trouble.
Theres one thing quoting and another thing bidding.
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I dont want to have to do that. I want a merchant to give me their best price for me. I appreciate that a bigger company will have better buying power but i dont want to go in today and pay a pound, in tomorrow and pay a pound fifty for the same thing. Just want consistency. Sometimes i go elsewhere just show i have other options if needed.
M
Mike Jackson
I will quite often take a quote from another merchant in. I will still use the merchant that gave me the cheaper price but I like to let them know why I'm not using them for a certain job. I think it gives them a chance to look at their pricing structure. Having said that I don't always go for the cheapest price as sometimes the service is more important.
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Likewise when i miss out on a bigish job. I like to contact the cust for some feedback on my price vs the one that got the job. Keeps my pricing right or gives me a laugh to see just how little somebody is charging.
D
Dotty
I agree, I tend to to stick with one merchantover here because he's reasonably priced but the clincher for me is he can turn round stock faster than his competitors.
Because of the nature of the business i sometimes have to get 2 or 3 merchants to price something over a £1,000. this is a contractual thing we're bound by but I always inform the merchant that I have to ring aound.
As was also said, we all also understand that custards will get 3 or 4 or more tenders for a contract, it's just common courtesy to keep us informed that we might be viewing the job at the same time as other guys.
I honestly don't mind as long as I know where I stand and I'm sure other guys feel the same.
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In 95% I only use one merchant as price and the service is good. I only go shop elsewhere if they can't get some stuff.
L
lame plumber
maybe what some people do, but I have an independant supplier and what I do with his blessing is to go to the bigger companies and get quotes and compare his to theirs. if he is over then he can sometimes come down or match the other guys, but theres no point in forcing him below everyone else or he wont be there next year to sell me anything. with this attitude both of us trog along happily reaching a sensible compromise, but best of all, if I ring him at an odd hour I can virtually guarentee him opening up for me to get the bits I urgently need. so I remain loyal to him and it pays me to do so. Just a pity customers dont copy my way of thinking cos they would get a better service in the long term.
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Ray Stafford
Well, there are a lot of you who I would love to have as customers with the attitudes described, and in fairness, we have a lot of customers who are like that.
But we also have a lot of customers who use us as part of a range of suppliers. One of my favourite conversations of all time went like this:
Me: "Hey T***, long time, no see. Where have you been hiding?"
Him: "Yeah, sorry Ray, I have mostly been using S**** at [competitor]"
Me: "Oh, why's that then? Is he beating our prices?"
Him: "No, its just that he took me to a golf day, and ... well... you know how it is..."
Me: "No worries mate. Anyway, how can we help?"
Him: "Well, I've taken this job on, and its a bit technically complicated for S****, so I though I'd come to you for some advice."
Me: "Splutter..."
Seriously - almost word for word.
And we did the quote, and made the sale, and then he went back to playing golf and shopping with the competitor.
But we also have a lot of customers who use us as part of a range of suppliers. One of my favourite conversations of all time went like this:
Me: "Hey T***, long time, no see. Where have you been hiding?"
Him: "Yeah, sorry Ray, I have mostly been using S**** at [competitor]"
Me: "Oh, why's that then? Is he beating our prices?"
Him: "No, its just that he took me to a golf day, and ... well... you know how it is..."
Me: "No worries mate. Anyway, how can we help?"
Him: "Well, I've taken this job on, and its a bit technically complicated for S****, so I though I'd come to you for some advice."
Me: "Splutter..."
Seriously - almost word for word.
And we did the quote, and made the sale, and then he went back to playing golf and shopping with the competitor.
L
lame plumber
should have bumped the price so you could have joined him on the course for a day
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No point asking any of the merchants round my way for anything technical (except hwos on the oil side), I would get more sense out of next doors cat.
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Ray Stafford
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Tell the cat to get his post count up, and send a PM to Mark!
I would but he really struggles without opposable thumbs. Ive told him try drinking more cravendale milk.
R
Ray Stafford
should have bumped the price so you could have joined him on the course for a day
What, and spoil a good walk in the country?
Seriously - I have never played golf, and whilst I have nothing against those who do, I hate the idea of doing business that way. Honest competition should be on product, price and service.
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kay-jay
I use two local independants that for the most part are pretty good. On some items each can be way over what the other charges but when all materials on any given job are added up then theres not mich between them so its down to which direction im working in (opposite ends of town) or for ordered gear who can get it quicker.
For non immediate work which requires over a 100 of gear I now always give ray a shout to see how he compares price wise as money saved goes into my pocket but even without a saving ill use ray as he has a good service and I appreciate the effort he puts into the forum.
For non immediate work which requires over a 100 of gear I now always give ray a shout to see how he compares price wise as money saved goes into my pocket but even without a saving ill use ray as he has a good service and I appreciate the effort he puts into the forum.
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Ray Stafford
Since when did being thumbless flipwits prevent people posting on this forum?
K
kay-jay
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My experience exactly. I turned down even quoting for a large job for us tonight, full rewire of a house and totally replumbing the house. Why? Well, firstly, the customer asked me who I was as he had arranged so many quotes. I then asked him how many quotes he was getting. 5 for the plumbing and 5 for the rewire. He was also renovating the house himself, it was his first project. He wanted to do as much of the work himself to save money.
All I read into was this job would be a complete nightmare, even if I was the 'lucky' company that won it, i.e. by being the cheapest.
I always subtly quiz the customers in a polite way now before going to a quote for large jobs. It's amazing how much of an impression you get from asking a few questions.
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I think there's another very important one for many people - who they are letting into their home. This is often a large factor in a domestic customer in particular making a decision.
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Ray Stafford
I missed this gem earlier. Excellent post.
If you really sell a premium product or service, you shouldn't see everyone as a customer. Your potential customers are only those willing and able to pay a premium price, and your marketing and advertising ought to be aimed at identifying those people.
Focussing on the correct customer group can save a fortune in wasted time.
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I agree totally on that one. That's pretty much what I try to do now on that initial phone call, the potential leads don't seem to realise it but I am really grilling them. If I don't like what I'm hearing I am just booking too far ahead to be useful to them. Then I pass their details onto the gas fitter I use who aims bang on the middle of the market.
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K
kay-jay
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I was meant to go and quote for a boiler installation job today and had arranged a time - btw 1&2 pm. Yesterday, the chap phoned to let me know four others will be quoting for the same job. I sent him a text message at 8 am today wishing him all the best for 2014 and made him know I will not be attending to quote for the job.
I can understand asking quotes from THREE tradesmen/women. But five or more? Where do people have the time to show five people around their house? The minute someone needs more than THREE companies to quote, then they're after the cheapest quote, that's how I see it.
I was once asked to come and quote for a shower pump installation. After agreeing a day and time, the chap rang to let me know that others will be quoting as well. He made me aware that whoever provided the cheapest quote will get the job. Needless to say I never attended.
I can understand asking quotes from THREE tradesmen/women. But five or more? Where do people have the time to show five people around their house? The minute someone needs more than THREE companies to quote, then they're after the cheapest quote, that's how I see it.
I was once asked to come and quote for a shower pump installation. After agreeing a day and time, the chap rang to let me know that others will be quoting as well. He made me aware that whoever provided the cheapest quote will get the job. Needless to say I never attended.
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lame plumber
letting agent called me today to go to a regular landlords failed oil boiler, making a lot of noise, not working and burnt electric smell. So I fathom the motors probably burnt out, and as there is an immersion and not cold, they can wait till monday as no parts available at 1300 on a sat. Plus is the landlady happy to cough for w/end callout, to no avail? Letting agents response, the tenant needs heating get on with it, so I rang landlady, and explained situ only to be informed that the leting agent has sent their guy who was available now and only charged £25 an hour anyhow!! wtf!!! I try and do her a favour and get burnt both ends, apart fm the fact I was installing a boiler for a lovely old lass who kept me in coffee all day I have come to the conclusion theres more assholes out there than there used to be and the expect us all to respond like the AA thanks to BG and their ads, so that one day we will all disappear up our rears and bg can really sting the dopes out there. Bearing in mind that anyone charging £25 to go on callouts over a weekend will have got a job in tescos as well, whilst helping to ruin it for the rest of us!! rant rant rant
I have come to the conclusion theres more assholes out there than there used to be and the expect us all to respond like the AA thanks to BG and their ads, so that one day we will all disappear up our rears and bg can really sting the dopes out there. Bearing in mind that anyone charging £25 to go on callouts over a weekend will have got a job in tescos as well, whilst helping to ruin it for the rest of us!! rant rant rant
I
iain85
I can't remember the quote origin but the sentiment remains.
'Avoid those who know the price of everything and the value of nothing'
Although it's easy to do when times are good, don't bow to people who want cheap. Covert those him value your expertise.
'Avoid those who know the price of everything and the value of nothing'
Although it's easy to do when times are good, don't bow to people who want cheap. Covert those him value your expertise.
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Ray Stafford
Why are you wasting your time on herw then ray?....
I don't sell a premium product, so I have to make do with customers lower down the evolutionary scale. In your case, much further down.
When do you want that fortic delivered incidentally?
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I don't sell a premium product, so I have to make do with customers lower down the evolutionary scale. In your case, much further down.
When do you want that fortic delivered incidentally?
You said about running the risk of a customer saying they dont want the product and you getting left with it.....
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Ray Stafford
V
vern
My favourite around 18 months asked to quote a new commercial boiler fitted in a cellar, meet property developer on site .....it was bit out in the sticks, turn up to empty building, 2 un marked vans and an Aston Martin.......wonders down open cellar door a tad late, 2 other guys there to quote, said developer then spits out speech blah blah " I got you all here at the same time, to save time and fuel for me as i am a very busy man please quote to this spec, cheapest will win the tender" blah blah etc
Fuming as the guy was an a hole, also unrealistic in what he was asking for his budget and time waster ( 2 other companies failed to show or it would have been 5!)
I phoned him that same afternoon, £7k+VAT I said verbally ( holding back my giggles by my rough calcs the gear alone was over £10K+ VAT) he said he would let me know, I saved his number in my phone and then buttoned him on numerous occasions, playing the game, I eventually answered, he wanted to meet me on site sounding very keen, informing me I had "just" won the tender, I was also to attend with the quote in writing, I said no problem.
Said day arrives, I forgot about it on purpose, he rings
"where are you I am on site and I am waiting"
my reply
" oh yeah sorry my time and fuel is also important" click beeeeerrr number blocked!
Did'nt fancy dragging a CXi out of the cellar anyhow lol
Fuming as the guy was an a hole, also unrealistic in what he was asking for his budget and time waster ( 2 other companies failed to show or it would have been 5!)
I phoned him that same afternoon, £7k+VAT I said verbally ( holding back my giggles by my rough calcs the gear alone was over £10K+ VAT) he said he would let me know, I saved his number in my phone and then buttoned him on numerous occasions, playing the game, I eventually answered, he wanted to meet me on site sounding very keen, informing me I had "just" won the tender, I was also to attend with the quote in writing, I said no problem.
Said day arrives, I forgot about it on purpose, he rings
"where are you I am on site and I am waiting"
my reply
" oh yeah sorry my time and fuel is also important" click beeeeerrr number blocked!
Did'nt fancy dragging a CXi out of the cellar anyhow lol
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