Damsel in distress!!!!! ;-)

[kerry]

hi,Im Kerry and Im hoping somebody could shed some light on my current situation! 3 differnt plumbers have been out to my glow worm combi boiler over the last few weeks but the problem is still occuring! the pressure on my boiler drops to 1 and then shuts down. the first plumber said that a valve was really dirty and dirty water was going outside through the copper pipe. anyway, he cleaned it and said the problem was sorted. wrong! a couple of days after that the same thing happend and so on and so on! the last plumber that came said there was nothing wrong with the boiler and that the only other way we could be loosing pressure would be through a leak in the system. He asked me if there were any pipes under floors downstairs and he said no, then he said that it couldnt be that then because a leak of that amount of water every couple of days would be apparent! then, before he left he said that it must be in the system somewhere!!!! I am so confused because first they tell me one thing and then they tell me something different and I just dont know what to think. I live here alone and cant afford to get a plumber out to test the system. to be honest, I dont think there is a leak, I still think its the boiler! there isnt any water going outside from the copper pipe any more but there is another pipe upstairs at the other side of the house and the pipe does go to the boiler but none of the plumbers have mentioned this! during the summer I could hear a constant dripping sound through this pipe and wonder could that be the problem maybe? can any of you possibly help me with this problem because I dont know what else to do! home serve say the boiler isnt at fault and I am certain there isnt a leak anywhere so where do I go from there? today the same thing happend again as I knew it would and I have had to fill the system up yet again. I must have done this at least 20 times now over the months and im not getting the problem resolved! are they right in what they are telling me? does any body else have other ideas perhaps that havent been mentioned to me? I really hope so! I wouldnt ask but I really am at a loss! thanks guys

 

[joe brown]

Turn it down and see how you go on! - dont laugh just try it..

Also just try this - refill the filler loop and run the hot water see if the pressure drops

 

[kerry]

Hiya Joe, can't believe Ive got a reply, thanks so much!

When you say turn it down do you mean turn the temperature down and if so by how much? I usually have it on around 20 degrees. Im sick to death of it, I just dont know what to do! Homeserve Plumber that came the other day pretty much told me not to bother them again because its not the boiler! I'll give it a go and Im not laughin, Honest! ;-)

Thanks again, Kerry

 

[joe brown]

It could your prv ( pressure relief valve ) passing but this would show wether your sytem was on or not. It leads me to believe The diaphragm in the Expansion vessel is perforated. I am only a trainee bare in mind ,

 

[kerry]

hi again, thats the valve he said was dirty and cleaned out! I couldnt think of its name until you just said it so thanks for that! funny enough that plumber did tell me that if it didnt fix it then he thought the valve might need replacing! sorry to be a real nuisance but could you recommend what I turn temp down to? I havent a blumin clue! thanks again, I really appreciate any advice you can give me even if it turns out not to be the problem! Kerry

 

[kerry]

oh right, ok, ill try it! its been shutting down every 24-48 hours for a couple of weeks now. before that it was lasting weeks at a time!

gona be a bit cold in here for a while but i'll def give it a go!
'
If the boiler doesnt shut down after several days do you think its that valve then possibly?

I'll try and give it as long as I possibly can (without freezing to death) on the lower temp. is it ok if I contact you again afterwards? thanks so much, kerry

 

[quality]

Don`t doubt yourself joe I would put money on the expansion vessel being shot - locate the vessel from the top at the rear (big orange thing at back of boiler, normaly orange) remove the cap from little threaded sticky out bit and press the schrader valve / pin in the middle pound to penny water comes out if it don`t do not press any more but be sure it will

 

[kerry]

I believe what you are sayin about Homeserve, and I have to agree, none of their attitudes were great at all! They werent really prepared to discuss anything much at all! Plus, it takes them at least 3 days to come out once you've rang customer services, its a joke! thanks again

 

[joe brown]

yes course you can, Im here most days - il keep checking in

Thanks quality - i thought the same, cheers mate

 

[kerry]

Don`t doubt yourself joe I would put money on the expansion vessel being shot - locate the vessel from the top at the rear (big orange thing at back of boiler, normaly orange) remove the cap from little threaded sticky out bit and press the schrader valve / pin in the middle pound to penny water comes out if it don`t do not press any more but be sure it will

CRIKEY!, I really cant believe you kind people out there trying to help! thanks so much, I really cant tell you how much I appreciate this! what's more, you are doing it for free unlike homeserve who I am paying and they dont appear to know a thing! thanks Kerry

hi again to both of you! im gona try that tomorrow I can see a bit better and prob ask my dad to come while we check it. dont worry, I wont do anythin daft and I def wont touch the gas or anything so you be able to sleep tonight!!!!
Just saw the advice about the hot water, ill try that also. thanks guys, Kerry

hi again Joe, ye, Im back! lol! I turned down the temp last night as you suggested. the weird thing is that for saying ive turned it down the rads are still quite hot! well, obv not scorching but hot to the touch and the house still feels warm enough! at first when i turned it down it was just cold more or less for ages but this morning ive got up and expected the house to be cold and it isnt!!!! I have a confession though, Its on 16, nearly 17 becasue I thought id be froze otherwise so I could try to turn it down to the 15 as you said but normally if Id turn it down to 16 it would hardly be on, if at all! so id just wack it back up again but ive left it on all night and I cant believe how hot the rads are! the pressure gauge is showing approx 1 3/4 at the moment! will try that other test later if my dad can get here. anyway, just thought id let you know. dont know if this is what you expected to happen though! speak to you later! ye, I know, Im a nightmare! thanks Kerry ;-)

 

[kerry]

me again! just a quick update! lol! boiler still on and this is the third day with having turned down temp! usually, it would have gone off after 24-48 hours of refillin the loop but so far so good! fingers crossed! rads are quite hot too! speak again soon!

 

[joe brown]

hope all goes well, let us know

 

[kerry]

hiya joe! ye, will do! is that what you were expecting to happen if its a faulty valve then? ;-)

 

[Renewable M]

Ring glow worm. Get an approved service engineer with all the spares in his van instead of the 'have-a-go' merchants. They'll sort it in half an hour max and the charges are very reasonable.

Hope it goes well.

 

[kerry]

hiya! ye, I know what you're sayin but ive paid insurance with Homeserve for them to sort it and trust me, they are gona sort it. They wont know whats hit em when i ring tomorrow! lol! ;-)

 

[Renewable M]

Oh goodness, I see your point.

 

[kerry]

theyre complete idiots! 3 been out already and are insisting I have a leak in my water pipes somewhere! its just a nightmare!

 

[willing2learn]

They wont know whats hit em when i ring tomorrow! lol! ;-)

Trust me, they will, because they hear it everyday!

 

[kerry]

lol! ye, I can imagine! ;-)

 

[Jimbob]

first thing i would of checked was Pressure relief valve, or 'blowoff' valve as some call it. Next would be expansion vessel. These guys seemed to have sorted you though.

 

[kerry]

thanks for that, I appreciate it! boiler still on so far! im gona give it another couple of days and then ring Homeserve and tell them that its def not a leak in the system as they keep tellin me! Im sick to death of them and really not looking forward to ringing them yet again! they're horrible when I ring up and im kind of having to prepare myself for the phone call! thanks mate ;-)

 

[kerry]

me again!

Oh no!, its been nearly a week since I turned temp down as suggested and the boiler has been on ever since. It would go off roughly every 24 hours when temp turned up higher! Funny thing is I'd just started to type you all a message saying that it was still on and ask what I should tell Homeserve the prob is when I noticed that its just shut down again!!!!

Pressure on 1 1/4 and has just gone off!

I'm gona have to refil the loop because I'll be froze otherwise and without hot water.

Are you any the wiser? God, I hope so! Just don't know what to do? Would you think I poss do have a leak after all or is it still pressure relief valve or expansion vessel?

Help!!!!!

Thanks again everyone

 

[Cds]

If the boiler has been on for that long it’s not a leak on the system.

The most likely problem is either the PRV is faulty or the expansion vessel is shot.

When you recharge the boiler you add more water to the system. When the boiler fires it heats up the water which expands this expansion is taken up by the pressure vessel. If the vessel is faulty then some water will be discharged out of the PRV. When the system cools down the pressure will then drop and the boiler will not restart due low pressure.

A good heating/service engineer would know this and sort it out in no time.

 

[kerry]

Hi again!....aarrggghhhhh!....now had 4 Plumbers out from Homeserve and yet again being told the same, that there has to be a leak in the system! We have had to trash some of our Oak flooring upstairs to have a look but have as suspected found nothing! Originally there was water coming out of the Copper pipe outside and the first guy cleaned the Valve and I don't think it has been leaking water since that. Is there anything else at all it might possibly be that you can think of? Really don't know what to do now because they WON'T do anything to help me! The last Plumber told me that each time i fill the system would be the equivalent to a cup of water and the reason why I may not be seeing the leak is because the water is evaporating due to the heat on the pipes and that it must be a tiny leak but I don't believe that for one minute! thanks againk. PLEAAASSSEEEEEE HEEEELLPPPPP!, Kerry ;-)

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

faulty filling loop,faulty prv or/and expansion vessel these are always the cause of water running out of the safety pipe,tell those muppets from homeserve to pull there fingers out and fault the system proply

 

[kerry]

Hi!...Thanks for that Mark, I really do appreciate any help with this....ye, you obv have them sussed...MUPPETS is the right word! However, getting them to do something is a joke and I really don't know how to make them because they won't accept that it is the boiler that is at fault! I'm possibly gona have to up this a gear maybe and demand to speak to someone there in charge! I'm literally filling the system back up every two days and have been doing this for months! Thanks again buddy, Kerry

 

[Blackcatgas]

What pressure are you refilling it to Kerry?, and what does the guage read when the heatings been on full for an hour or 2 ?.

 

[kerry]

Hiya!...I fill it to approx 1 1/2 when I fill it....it goes up to roughly between 2 1/2 and 3 when been on ages!.....;-)

 

[Blackcatgas]

Hiya!...I fill it to approx 1 1/2 when I fill it....it goes up to roughly between 2 1/2 and 3 when been on ages!.....;-)

3 is the pre set pressure that a prv will blow off/open slightly and drip.
there should be a scrhader (sp) type valve like on your push bike tyres on your expansion vessel, take a reading off this, if its low, repressure to what it says on vessel, it will be somthing like 1.2 bar.
If the vessel has broken it wont hold the pressure.
I dont know how easy it is to change the exp vessel in the type of boiler you have, some require you to de mount the boiler, if this is the case put in an external one, also while your at it change the prv for a fresh one as they are hard to clean out properly without taking them apart and you shouldnt really take any prv apart in the first place (weve all done it from time to time though).
Also you should always fill the boiler to the manufactures level, this will always be the same as the charge mr Worcester,Mr glowworm etc has put into the vessel at the factory.
CDS post explains what happens when the expansion vessel is shot (post 22)

 

[kerry]

me again!... thanks for that! will get my dad to check tomorrow when he comes!....once the pressure was as high as just over 4 on the gauge!....I read in the manual that it is supposed to have an automatic cut out on the boiler at 4 but it didnt!!!!!......I really am having a nightmare with Homeserve over this....they've even told me not to bother them again about a problem that isnt down to the boiler!!!!!! :-
(

 

[Blackcatgas]

me again!... thanks for that! will get my dad to check tomorrow when he comes!....once the pressure was as high as just over 4 on the gauge!....I read in the manual that it is supposed to have an automatic cut out on the boiler at 4 but it didnt!!!!!......I really am having a nightmare with Homeserve over this....they've even told me not to bother them again about a problem that isnt down to the boiler!!!!!! :-
(

2.5 bar is a high reading, if the reading gets to 4 bar I can almost garentee that your expansion vessel is shot, unless you have alot of radiators that is.

 

[kerry]

oh, is it?!.... there's 11 radiators in the house.....don't know if you'd consider that to be a lot! thank you for helping me! ;-
0

 

[Blackcatgas]

oh, is it?!.... there's 11 radiators in the house.....don't know if you'd consider that to be a lot! thank you for helping me! ;-
0

If it they are all big ones they could have put a strain on the exp vessel, expansion vessels only have a certain life, might need to put in a bigger exp vessel to cope although unless they are all very big rads I doubt it.they dont like bieng full of hot water under pressure even though thats what they are designed to do.
Ps can you draw a portrait of my cat?.

 

[kerry]

I reckon 7 of them are big, the others not tiny but not huge!......ye, can do other animals as well as dogs. The pic has to be no smaller than 6 x 4" and good quality so I can capture the detail well!......;-)

 

[Blackcatgas]

I reckon 7 of them are big, the others not tiny but not huge!......ye, can do other animals as well as dogs. The pic has to be no smaller than 6 x 4" and good quality so I can capture the detail well!......;-)

I havent got any pictures hes very camera shy, I can describe him to you, He is black, has big fluffy cheeks and a big fat face like his dad (me!), Id like one of him smoking a small ceruit.

 

[kerry]

......and a ceruit is a??????????? lol

 

[Blackcatgas]

......and a ceruit is a??????????? lol

The cheroot or stogie is a cylindrical cigar with both ends clipped during manufacture. Since cheroots do not taper, they are inexpensive to roll mechanically, and their low cost makes them particularly popular.

 

[kerry]

lol....well, ive had some requests for paintings in my time but I can honestly say that's a first! lol

 

[quality]

As my first post suggested the expansion vessel,I still have no doubt that this be the cause of your trouble , weather its burst or has no pressure it has still got to be the culprit - however if you have a large house with large rads an external vessel may need to be installed as sombody as allready suggested --- 7 % volume expansion of the top of my head - has your system always been like this or has it just recently started#


I gonna get a job with homeserve get paid bugger all do bugger all, its the monkeys and peanuts thing

 

[kerry]

hiya!....the boiler is approx just over 12 months old and it first started about a month after we had it installed!.....all the guy did was come out from Glow worm and filled the loop and turned the boiler back on! he didnt do anything else because I watched him!.....then, a couple of months went by and it now does it ever couple of days!....Ye, I realise what you're saying about Homeserve Plumbers but the thing is that Ive paid insurance for them to sort this out and they're not!.....gona have to give it one last shot and maybe ask to speak to someone in authority there and if that fails, cancel the policy and pay a Plumber! thanks buddy ;-)

 

[Blackcatgas]

Vaillant boilers are owned by glow worm, vaillant use homeserve to repair new boilers within thier warentee period.

 

[kerry]

I see!....why is it then that not one of them has been able to rectify the problem if they're fully qualified?....I just don't understand it at all!......surely, they're not just being particularly awkward! thanks ;-)

 

[Blackcatgas]

I see!....why is it then that not one of them has been able to rectify the problem if they're fully qualified?....I just don't understand it at all!......surely, they're not just being particularly awkward! thanks ;-)

Luck of the draw Kerry, like any firm eg British gas, get somone who 18mnths ago worked in a bank or get some old boy whos worked on gas all his life.
Find a decent local plumber who you like and trust and stop paying homeserve the monthly payments, or do what mrs Blackcatgas did and marry him.

 

[kerry]

lol!....;-)

so....any rough idea of what we're talking about in terms of cost if i got a reputable Plumber out if it was the expansion vessel for instance?....sorry, I know Im a nightmare! lol

 

[kerry]

hi again....could do with all your help just one more time on this subject guys if you dont mind!

was still having the problems and still having no luck with Homeserve! ye, no surprise!

So, I decided to try and get to the bottom of this prob once and for all!

I turned down all the rads from heat setting 5 down to number 3. Some of the upstairs ones were already on 3 but you get the picture! Also, I havent used the hot water at all for a whole week now and the pressure hasnt dropped one bit so the boiler didnt go off! yeah!!!!!!....what I dont know though is what does this mean in terms of which part is now faulty? Expansion valve thing or is it now something else?

I know you prob sick of me but PLEEEEEEEEEASE HELP if you can!

I want to ring them back up and ask to speak to someone in charge at Homeserve because to say ive had enough would be an understatement!

Any help you can give me will be soooooooo appreciated!

Thanks guys!, Kerry ;-)

 

[quality]

The boiler probably has not heated the water enough to cause it to expand and increase the pressure so I would still suggest the expansion vessel in at fault however it may simply just needs re - pressurizing as opposed to replacing hth

 

[kerry]

oh thanks!...you don't think it might be the thermostat part gone on the boiler then? Ive looked at the glow worm site and it says the part costs approx £350 and it made me wonder if Homeserve just didnt want to cough up! Kerry

 

[peteh20]

send me an email with your number it will be easier for me to talk to you and give you direction [email protected]

 

[kerry]

have emailed you number....whenever is convenient for you, no rush!

thanks for that Pete....really appreciate your help! will keep you posted! ;-)

 

[fuzzy]

hi,Im Kerry and Im hoping somebody could shed some light on my current situation! 3 differnt plumbers have been out to my glow worm combi boiler over the last few weeks but the problem is still occuring! the pressure on my boiler drops to 1 and then shuts down. the first plumber said that a valve was really dirty and dirty water was going outside through the copper pipe. anyway, he cleaned it and said the problem was sorted. wrong! a couple of days after that the same thing happend and so on and so on! the last plumber that came said there was nothing wrong with the boiler and that the only other way we could be loosing pressure would be through a leak in the system. He asked me if there were any pipes under floors downstairs and he said no, then he said that it couldnt be that then because a leak of that amount of water every couple of days would be apparent! then, before he left he said that it must be in the system somewhere!!!! I am so confused because first they tell me one thing and then they tell me something different and I just dont know what to think. I live here alone and cant afford to get a plumber out to test the system. to be honest, I dont think there is a leak, I still think its the boiler! there isnt any water going outside from the copper pipe any more but there is another pipe upstairs at the other side of the house and the pipe does go to the boiler but none of the plumbers have mentioned this! during the summer I could hear a constant dripping sound through this pipe and wonder could that be the problem maybe? can any of you possibly help me with this problem because I dont know what else to do! home serve say the boiler isnt at fault and I am certain there isnt a leak anywhere so where do I go from there? today the same thing happend again as I knew it would and I have had to fill the system up yet again. I must have done this at least 20 times now over the months and im not getting the problem resolved! are they right in what they are telling me? does any body else have other ideas perhaps that havent been mentioned to me? I really hope so! I wouldnt ask but I really am at a loss! thanks guys

They normally shut down at around half a bar not one? You can often set it at 1 when cold. obviously when it warms up the pressure increases. The pressure vessel is there to accomodate the expanded water. If it is broken then it over pressurises and the pressure relief valve will release all the expanded water. Then when it cools down it will be too low and a safety feature will not allow the boiler to fire again.

YOU need to fill to 1 bar cold. turn the boiler on at full heat and watch the presusre gauge. Does it creep up to over 3 bar? that will tell me alot. Let me know what happens. It will take 30minutes of your time to watch it heat up. Good luck and post your findings