Consumer here: Need advice about plumbing work

[kevnull]

Hi, I'm new, I've got a plumber doing some renovations for me and I'm not sure whether what he's doing is correct/appropriate.

It's a 1930s end terrace with no existing gas supply, but one is being installed in a couple of weeks and the plumber has been busy installing a boiler and rads, and installing a new bathroom, ahead of the gas connection.

I've got a couple of issues with the work he's done and I want to know if you think I have a reasonable grounds to complain before I speak to him about it.

1) He's run two new 22mm plastic pipes under the floorboards on the first floor, but to do so he's cut notches in the joists which leave two 5" floorboards with no support on one side, and if the boards go down there are joints on the pipe which will have boards sitting on them. I asked him to put it right and tonight I've found he's added some wood to the voids but the new wood is too low to support the floor boards, and the joints are still too proud and would be subject to pressure from the floor.

2) The bathroom previous had a bath fitted which we've removed and asked him to fit a shower. He has installed the shower tray today and he's connected it to the original waste pipe from the bath, which is a couple of inches above the floor boards. This means the shower tray is a good 5" above the floorboards. I'd expected him to run the waste pipe under the floor boards although looking at it this would mean cutting 32mm or 40mm hole through a few joists and drilling a new hole through the brickwork.

So...

1) Am I being unreasonable to expect him to make his notches right, so the floorboards go back down level without coming into contact with his new pipe work? Also what does building regs say about the depth of notches in joists? I have tried to find out but I'm struggling to find any info. I thought the whole point of using plastic pipe was it was easy to send it through cut holes in the middle of joists, rather than notching them?

2) Is it unreasonable for me to have expected him to re-route the waste pipe in this way, under the floor? As things are the shower tray is standing on legs a good 5" above the floor. I imagined he would fit it flush to the floor. Should I have expected him to fit it like this, or do I have a reasonable cause for complaint?

Any advice much appreciated. We went with this plumber because he seemed like someone we could communicate with easily and he was confident he could get the work done in the required time frame, not because his quote was the cheapest (it wasn't). Should I insist he does these jobs in the way I expected, or am I off the mark?

Thanks!

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Could you take some pics of the points you have made plz ??

 

[Best]

One thing is for sure, - if you have to notch joists, you don't do it at one side of the floorboards!
As to the shower waste, - you really have to avoid drilling joists as a 2" hole is a substantial amount of the joist. Exceptions are on rare occasions where you can drill above a reinforced area or at end of joist beyond a support wall below a ground floor. Sounds strange

 

[AWheating]

http://www.stevenage.gov.uk/content/15953/24595/24598/22-GN-Technical-Notching-of-Joists-May2011.pdf


Sounds like he has fudged the notching tbh. As for the waste pipe drilling them through joists is a bad idea. The waste hole could be drilled at floor board level if needed tho.

 

[SimonG]

For point 2, what was detailed in the estimate?

 

[hammers4spanner]

I don't think there is anything wrong in questioning his work as your a paying customer . I would ask in a polite manner why he has done the shower tray waste as such ,likewise about his notching.

Sometimes what the customer expects can't always be the case with shower trays , many times i have been to bathrooms were aesthetically look good however under the floor is a shambles.

 

[kevnull]

Thanks for all the advice, I'll measure the joist notches this morning and see how they match up with that PDF. I think the position is fine and the depth may be OK too, it's just that he's run them alongside two existing copper pipes and now the notches are about 5" wide...

I'll take a couple of photos today too.

SimonG - there was no specification for the waste water pipe so contractually there's no problem I guess, if that's a normal way to do it. I would like the shower tray lower though so I'll have to ask him what we can do about it, although I'm concerned he might send a few joists throughthrough a wood chipper to make room!

 

[solutions]

It is not unusual to raise the shower tray, infact the fashion for floor sitting trays is fairly recent. If you have not requested the shower tray sits on the floor then it is wrong to assume that is how it would be done.
You should ask if it is possibke for the tray ti be fitted on to the floor however the joist position and shiwer tray trap location may not allow for tge tray to be fitted to the floor.
Any notching in floor joists should meet with the building regulations and should not leave floor boards unsupported or supported by pipework. If you are not happy with the way the flooring has been put back infirm your plumber and explsin how you would like it altered.

 

[kevnull]

Thanks for the reply. Looking at the tray the trap is only an inch or so above the boards and I'd agree that sinking it into the floor probably wouldn't be a good idea so I'll leave that.

The joists are a problem though. Most of his cuts are in the region of 35mm deep but a couple aren't and that is where the joints are too high. Also the surface of the notches that the pipes are clipped to is splintered wood (pine?), not smooth at all, is this likely to be a problem with plastic pipe?

 

[plumben]

How deep are the joists?

 

[REDSAW]

i would argue the toss with you on number 2. some trays you just cant and havbe to be jacked up. i tell customers this befrorehand!. they dont all fit like you see them in a showroom!!!.

its another £200 for trying though...

 

[kevnull]

Yeah I think that's a fair statement, I was sealing the plastering today and had another look and I think he's done the right thing there. It's a quadrant shower though so it's going to be awkward to fill the gap. Ho hum.

 

[jonnyswamp]

Yeah I think that's a fair statement, I was sealing the plastering today and had another look and I think he's done the right thing there. It's a quadrant shower though so it's going to be awkward to fill the gap. Ho hum.

If the tray didn't come with a skirt, try a plastics manufacturer/window fitting co
You should be able to find a thin cover strip to bend into place and silicon it on, they come in all sorts of widths

 

[REDSAW]

on the up side, its easy maintenance to get at the trap

 

[plumben]

Yeah I think that's a fair statement, I was sealing the plastering today and had another look and I think he's done the right thing there. It's a quadrant shower though so it's going to be awkward to fill the gap. Ho hum.

I use flat plastic Board from the window company, screw and cap both ends and silicone top to tray and bottom to floor,
You can get it in different sizes

 

[JCSPLUMBING]

Notches seem off! To fit a low profile shower tray sometimes requires a boxing on the ceiling below. I've done this on occasion and when it's plastered, coved and painted etc it is virtually un noticeable. However some are not possible due to joist layout

 

[Stanios]

The shower waste can go straight outside the building into nearest stack. You can have a walk in shower if you like..

 

[Destroyer2813]

The shower waste can go straight outside the building into nearest stack. You can have a walk in shower if you like..

What about any joists in the way then just hack through them , that's a pretty bold statement having not seen the layout of the ops room

 

[Stanios]

What about any joists in the way then just hack through them , that's a pretty bold statement having not seen the layout of the ops room

Of course its not universal but you can select a tray with waste position to minimise joist hacking. Then maybe op won't need a ladder to get into his shower [emoji1]

 

[plumben]

Of course its not universal but you can select a tray with waste position to minimise joist hacking. Then maybe op won't need a ladder to get into his shower [emoji1]

What if the showers in the courner of two internal walls and the joists run the wrong way for the waste,
Then Theres no option but to raise the tray