A real brain teaser, its got me beat

[Derrick229]

Hi Lads,
Just been replumbing a house, they said they had a leak

They had a new main put in by 3 Valleys, great, no problem (no leaks)

They have a granny flat next door, and a valve that isolates the granny flat and the hotwater (this line feeds the combi boiler (it also isolates the hot water to EVERY WHERE)

I have run a new line to the bathroom, it feeds just the bath, hand basin and toilet

So is it clear so far ?

1st valve, isolates the whole place (main S/C)

2nd valve isolates the cold water in the granny flat, the hot water to the WHOLE house, the kitchen in the house and the outside tap

3rd valve isolates just the bathroom

Are you still with me ?

When I isolate the main valve (no 1) the water meter stops (this tells me that between the water meter and the main S/c is fine, no leaks)

I now shut off the 2nd valve which shuts off the granny flat, kitchen, outside tap and the hot water supply from the combi (the main valve is now open, of course)

With the main valve open and no 2 closed, I open no 3 valve (which feeds JUST the bathroom), no taps are open or dripping in the bathroom, the ball valve isnt letting by

BUT the meter is still going round, now common sense tells me that somewhere there is a leak, so there is going to be a damp patch or a puddle

There is nothing, the taps arent leaking, the pipework is dry, I can see all the pipework

I called the 3 valleys guy out, even he saw it, meter working, no damp patches, no dripping taps, dry pipe

Anyone got any ideas what the hell is happening, I been told by the 3 valleys guy the meter only works when there is a flow of water,

It only seems to be when the valve (no 3) that feeds the bathroom there is a flow, I cant find it

Anyone any ideas, because its got me buggered, 3 valleys are reluctant to dig the meter up, they say its fine (and as the leak is AFTER the meter, its the house owners problem)


(I have to be really honest, I think there is a fault on the meter)

 

[GreenArmy]

No, he means cold pushing through tap back through hot pipe which shouldnt be the case if your hot is off a combi.

 

[GreenArmy]

Sorry that wouldnt be the case because it would come out of spout. Still if you got isolation (ball'o'fix) on your bath tap supplies it wouldnt hurt to turn them off and check.

 

[Derrick229]

No, he means cold pushing through tap back through hot pipe which shouldnt be the case if your hot is off a combi.

Ah right, I follow, both the hot tap and cold are off

I'm grabbing at straws here (just hope there isnt a leak on the dam straws though :-( )

I really didnt think this topic would stretch to so many pages, sorry lads, you must have better things to do with your Sunday evenings

 

[Derrick229]

Sorry that wouldnt be the case because it would come out of spout. Still if you got isolation (ball'o'fix) on your bath tap supplies it wouldnt hurt to turn them off and check.

I hadnt put them on the bath or HB, was relying on the no 3 SC to isolate them (not often people change taps or do washers) there is one on WC, though, (that washer in there gets done more often I have found, but they have a standard BV in that)

 

[GreenArmy]

you must have better things to do with your Sunday evenings

Actually no, im on-call and its my birthday so i cant drink, and ive only had two jobs today, so im like a coiled spring ready to pounce. By the way, where are you?

 

[Derrick229]

Actually no, im on-call and its my birthday so i cant drink, and ive only had two jobs today, so im like a coiled spring ready to pounce. By the way, where are you?

West London, Northolt, the job is 15 minutes away, its a tip, they just upsticks and went on holiday, leaving me, a chinese kitchen fitter (who speaks no English) a house sitter who is Sri Lankan (and speaks no English) its a bloody nightmare

I'm supposed to be retired, I did all my on call stuff at LHR, 1 in 3, a call out every night while on call,

Not much of a birthday, but try and have a happy one

(I have got to the age when I dont celebrate, I commiserate)

 

[Derrick229]

Its not true how loud you shout at them, they still dont understand you

 

[Phil]

Derrick, is this a combi or open vented system?

 

[Derrick229]

A combi, but that is fed from SC 2, there isnt a problem on that side, its from SC 3 to the bathroom, just on the CWM which feeds just the bath, HB and WC

Just to reinterate (there are a lot of pages to go through, and rather than read the lot, here it is in a nutshell)

SC 1 feeds everywhere, SC 2 feeds the granny flat, boiler, sink in the granny flat, shower, WC in the granny flat AND the new kitchen

SC 3 feeds JUST the bathroom on the main house and just CW and this is where the problem is, the meter only runs when SC 1 and SC are open but taps are shut (WC isolated)

Okay ?

Clear as mud

 

[WaterTight]

should have sought an audience with the pope on this one.

 

[Phil]

Come on Derrick the suspense is killing us, how did you get on today?

Is your customer a happy chappy yet?

 

[Derrick229]

Come on Derrick the suspense is killing us, how did you get on today?

Is your customer a happy chappy yet?

I couldnt do buggerall, the chippies router busted, and he cant cut the hole for the sink and I couldnt even get close to any pipework

I went in the bathroom though, the dam tissue was dry and still no puddles, I disconnected the cold tail on the bath and put the gauge on, reading 3.72 bar, and turned the water off, I will find out tomorrow if there is any drop in pressure (it didnt while I was there though)

 

[Dannypipe]

I've got to admit, I'm looking forward to finding out what the issue is here. Keep us posted mate.

 

[Derrick229]

I've got to admit, I'm looking forward to finding out what the issue is here. Keep us posted mate.

When I got there I half expected everyone on this thread to be there, just to see what was going on with it and laugh at me

 

[Dotty]

I'll be sitting here with me popcorn ready cocker!

 

[easyt]

THE INTRIGUE AND SUSPENSE IS WORTHY OF AN HITCH COCK MOVIE. Sorry about the capitals.

 

[Dannypipe]

That is one scary avatar croppie!! You look a wee bit maaaaad in the heeed!!

 

[dontknowitall]

It's the colour of the tongue that gets me ... !!!!

 

[Gray0689]

I think it's his real face too

 

[PlumbBobBob]

i think the wind changed

 

[GPSNewcastle]

So Derrick you can see all of the pipework from the meter to the services? There isnt anywhere that you cant see? Im just baffled how this is happening...there has to be a leak somewhere...and theres a lot of people on here who want to know where it is haha

 

[Derrick229]

So Derrick you can see all of the pipework from the meter to the services? There isnt anywhere that you cant see? Im just baffled how this is happening...there has to be a leak somewhere...and theres a lot of people on here who want to know where it is haha

Not quite from the meter, but from the main SC (no 1) in the house, and then from SC 2 which goes to the bathroom, just feeding the cold side of both the HB and bath, then the WC

 

[Derrick229]

here is an update

I got there and still cant put the kitchen sink in, this chippy hasnt cut the hole for the sink yet (his router died)

I went up in the bathroom expecting the worse, the pressure gauge had dropped .2 of a bar, not much at all, I thought, the meter was still turning though, but still slowly

So it hasnt got any better or any worse, but I cant understand why the meter is still turning and I have lost so little pressure

Bit of an anti climax, isnt it ?

Still no closer to solving this

 

[ferret]

Anti climax ain,t the word , i feel more deflated than watching 44" chest lol , at least you know for sure that you do not have a leak ! now you need to look at the incoming main or get the board out and show them it must be a dicky meter

 

[Derrick229]

Anti climax ain,t the word , i feel more deflated than watching 44" chest lol , at least you know for sure that you do not have a leak ! now you need to look at the incoming main or get the board out and show them it must be a dicky meter

I had the guy out before, he said the meter was fine (how he knows without having it dug up I dont know) he said it only moves when water flows, well it was still moving and I still had pressure (for over 24 hours, standing pressure) so something is wrong somewhere

 

[GreenArmy]

Im sure i read somewhere that if some drunk youths walked by in the night and decided it would be funny to smash up the meter face (assuming its external) that the water board would replace the meter. wink wink.......

 

[Derrick229]

Im sure i read somewhere that if some drunk youths walked by in the night and decided it would be funny to smash up the meter face (assuming its external) that the water board would replace the meter. wink wink.......

That would only happen if the plumber left the cover up and they used something from all the rubble outside, though

I suppose I had better start leaving the cover down in case that happens

 

[dontknowitall]

Don't think they have to be drunk.

I came across this thread a couple of days ago and wondered how long it would be before someone suggested changing the meter. I'm dontknowitall on purpose but I think you've done enough to try an eliminate all the other possibilities.

One other thought I had was to cut the house pipework as near the meter as you can and pop a stop end on the incoming mains (then check the meter then re-solder). I'm intrigued now as to what the answer is - hope you tell us after nine pages of this!!

 

[Derrick229]

Don't think they have to be drunk.

I came across this thread a couple of days ago and wondered how long it would be before someone suggested changing the meter. I'm dontknowitall on purpose but I think you've done enough to try an eliminate all the other possibilities.

One other thought I had was to cut the house pipework as near the meter as you can and pop a stop end on the incoming mains (then check the meter then re-solder). I'm intrigued now as to what the answer is - hope you tell us after nine pages of this!!

As much as I would like to, the poly is underground, from the meter until it comes up in the kitchen, then there is about 6 inches to the first SC

 

[Dotty]

And you said with valve no.1 (main sc) closed the meter stops.......... which kinda negates stopends on the mdpe..... can't be the mixer hot tap letting back into the cold supply cos you're running a combi and what you would have there is a loop, which once it was up to pressure the meter would stop running........ no leaks, no major pressure drop........

hmmmmmmmmmmm............

Old Balvenie time methinks.......... and another day pondering someone elses problem rather than my own!

Oh. And thanks for all your messages about me handsome visage.

I love you all too.............

I Think............