6128 or 6129?

[FrankHeraty]

Hello there

Like so many other old duffers (I'm 40) I'm thinking about changing my career direction and am considering re-training to become a plumber. I wondered if anyone could advise whether the 6128 or 6129 would be the better option. I know that 6129 is a basic plumbing course whereas 6128 is directed more towards heating and ventilation.

Because of my age and current committments I can't really afford to take the long college/apprentice route to get me started so I'm considering a so-called "fast track" course which means I can run it alongside my current work.

I've spoken with both sales people from OLCI and Newcareerskills and know that either of the courses mentioned above are theoretical/colleg-based only, meaning that I would need a NVQ2/work based assessment to actually be classed as a plumber.

From what I've gathered the 6128 also includes practicals such as fitting a bathroom suite, installation of radiators and general plumbing services, so I thought that this would be more of diverse course and is the one I'm leaning towards. But I would certainly place more of a value on the advice from people on this forum as opposed to the sharp suited bloke who sat on my couch for around three hours the other day.

Also, with regards to the two training providers does anyone have good/bad feedback about the courses I'm considering? I've read some feedback already but these generally seem to be from around 1 year ago.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Frank

 

[hiretools]

Hello there

Like so many other old duffers (I'm 40) I'm thinking about changing my career direction and am considering re-training to become a plumber. I wondered if anyone could advise whether the 6128 or 6129 would be the better option. I know that 6129 is a basic plumbing course whereas 6128 is directed more towards heating and ventilation.

Because of my age and current committments I can't really afford to take the long college/apprentice route to get me started so I'm considering a so-called "fast track" course which means I can run it alongside my current work.

I've spoken with both sales people from OLCI and Newcareerskills and know that either of the courses mentioned above are theoretical/colleg-based only, meaning that I would need a NVQ2/work based assessment to actually be classed as a plumber.

From what I've gathered the 6128 also includes practicals such as fitting a bathroom suite, installation of radiators and general plumbing services, so I thought that this would be more of diverse course and is the one I'm leaning towards. But I would certainly place more of a value on the advice from people on this forum as opposed to the sharp suited bloke who sat on my couch for around three hours the other day.

Also, with regards to the two training providers does anyone have good/bad feedback about the courses I'm considering? I've read some feedback already but these generally seem to be from around 1 year ago.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Frank

Hello Frank the 6129 and 6128 are basically the same only difference is the sheet lead weathering which without the lead u aint a plumber u r a heating installation engineer the choice as they say is yours e personally just finished my 6129 but i was the only 1 who liked the lead so like i said its up to u hope this helps. Hiretools

 

[kingm1988]

Hi Frank.

I was in your very position this time last year, in fact I wouldn't be suprised if some of the posts you read were started by me.

So yeh, as you know, it's the NVQ that will give you 'plumber' status, and not the 6128/6129.

The 6128 is practically identical to the 6129, bar the fact that it doesn't include Lead. Any NVQ assessor will tell you that they don't require you to do anything with lead to gain the qualification. Hence the 6128 is just as suited to you becoming a plumber as the 6129.

I currently do the 6129 with OLCI, and am due to complete this by next month. Um, what can I tell you about this place? It's ok, I found my self, among others too, with nothing to do on the 3rd or 4th day of the workshops. Everything they teach you can be taught at a much faster pace, and with more attention to detail. A couple of the instructors are incredible teachers (if you ever get Lee, cling on to him and get as much out of him as possible), others however.....morons. Arogant plumbers who have made good money in the past, they sit on their chairs, heads held high, chewing gum, belly hanging over their belt, faces like a slapped arse, huff and puff when you ask them a question, they have become the vein of my existence at that place...NOT very helpful at all.

OLCI, like many of these training providers, have completely overvalued the price of the course, so be prepared every now and then to cut up a few 3m copper tube's and put them in your bag for when you become a plumber . Basically, just get as much out of these people as possible, because by god, have they got everything out of you to pay for it! Alternatively, try negotiating part P, water regs, maybe even gas, to be included in the price. I read a post a while ago about some dude who got all of this and more for about 4k, how much of that is true I don't know, but there is certainly no harm in trying.

Good luck mate, if you've got any other questions then don't hesitate to ask.

 

[hiretools]

That was me my course costs were over 5k and i got the part L, water regs, and C/H design installation all in 3.5k Its better in your pocket than theres but i would not stoop to nicking cut up 3m copper pipes just in case they catch u can be rather embarrasing especially if you have 5 weeks still to go good luk m8 and negotiate the best you can, you wont know unless you try forget the part p unless your doing the gas the defined or full scope aint worth jack unless wiring a plug or motorised comes across

plus the 6129 tech cert as well .

Also if you are based in the midlands try React fast training in brum thats where i studied and they werre sweet as with me including all the trainers. Plus they are open to negotiation but be warned if your lookin to stay in digs tell them to shove it there is a guy who has a number in the canteen called happy full english sky t.v £25 per day

 

[FrankHeraty]

Lads

Thanks so much for your advice - much appreciated. It really is invaluable particularly from people who not so long ago were in the same situation as myself.

I suppose the best move I've made so far is getting on this forum

Cheers again

Frank

 

[newbie1]

think very carefully about this the industry is on its knees and experienced plumbers are still scratching for work so as a new entrant you are going to struggle to make anything near whats required to keep a familly
companies wont touch a fast tracker
selp employed start up costs incl course will be over 10k and thats a minimum

 

[Bernie2]

Got to agree with Newbie1

The industry does seem to be on its knees. It depends of course if your final intention is to work for companies or yourself.

Working for yourself on private work, experience does not matter, you can just go out and get work and build a portfolio from your jobs.

Working as an employee or sub contracting on sites, is a whole different game.

Somebody will probably be looking at your work who probably knows more about how it should be done than you do perhaps yourself. They will also want you to do it fast and within a price. And there seems to be plenty of competition for jobs.

So its your choice really. Working for a Plumbing company you would be expected to be able to do the whole range of a Plumbers job, including lead work. But you may find all the company do is central heating, but they might get a lead job in now and then and want to send you.

I once worked on a big lead job in Cheshire, decided to renew the lead dressers I used and then hardly ever used them again.

In point I think I still have them, but my being lazy and forgetful, they have probably split without regular oiling.

 

[Paul Cockhill]

Hi

I am an even older duffer than you (48), I have just completed the 6128 course with New Career Skills. They are a good company NCS but i felt we did not do enough practical and they should have spent more time showing us different systems and products. However we did fit a bathroom, some radiators, cold water storage system
and a hot water cylinder. I have ended up with the qualification, the water regs and unvented hot water storage system certificates. Part P defined scope is also included in their new package, but not in mine. The cost £4.5k, quite hefty. I realise I need to get a NVQ for the proper qualification

I tried contacting loads of plumbers for some practical experience but their was no interest. i have a brother who has a building company and I have done a few plumbing jobs for him which has been fantastic experience, however I have gone self-employed as getting a job with a plumbing company is very difficult without previous practical experience.

Working for yourself is quite scary but NCS are at the end of a phone line so have been very useful in that respect. However I have turned down a few jobs because I just do not have the experience to attempt them. I have dropped hundreds of fliers in the local neighbourhood and had quite a good response. It is also worth contacting letting firms as they are looking for people to do plumbing jobs and small maintenance work.

I think it will take me a year to make a reasonable return, so far I have done 4 months but I think there is work around, from friends family etc and their friends and families, so that is the best way to start.

Good luck

 

[newbie1]

i am sorry to say the training companies are still selling people the dream of a plumbing/gas career and taking 5k plus off them

one recent poster has done 10days gas and was asking about corgi work?? and subcontracting to british gas
after ten days a doubt he can solder a joint let alone subcontract and he has dreams of becoming a gas engineer
Its time these training companies were held to account and forced to give honest information to applicants i still see btsc advertising their courses with a promise or 40k a year
ask around on here how many experienced plumbers are earning 40k at the moment and yet they still come in their droves like lemmings jumping off the cliff

 

[FrankHeraty]

Hi

I am an even older duffer than you (48), I have just completed the 6128 course with New Career Skills. They are a good company NCS but i felt we did not do enough practical and they should have spent more time showing us different systems and products. However we did fit a bathroom, some radiators, cold water storage system
and a hot water cylinder. I have ended up with the qualification, the water regs and unvented hot water storage system certificates. Part P defined scope is also included in their new package, but not in mine. The cost £4.5k, quite hefty. I realise I need to get a NVQ for the proper qualification

I tried contacting loads of plumbers for some practical experience but their was no interest. i have a brother who has a building company and I have done a few plumbing jobs for him which has been fantastic experience, however I have gone self-employed as getting a job with a plumbing company is very difficult without previous practical experience.

Working for yourself is quite scary but NCS are at the end of a phone line so have been very useful in that respect. However I have turned down a few jobs because I just do not have the experience to attempt them. I have dropped hundreds of fliers in the local neighbourhood and had quite a good response. It is also worth contacting letting firms as they are looking for people to do plumbing jobs and small maintenance work.

I think it will take me a year to make a reasonable return, so far I have done 4 months but I think there is work around, from friends family etc and their friends and families, so that is the best way to start.

Good luck

Hi Paul

Thanks for the information as it was 6128 I seem to be favouring. So did NCS not get you any experience throught their contacts? They said that they would be searching for suitable placements for me while I was still on the course.

Cheers Frank

Hi Newbie1

Thanks for the honest advice. Much appreciated and taken on board.

I'm currently in a profession where redundancies have been rife over the last couple of years so it seems that everyone is in the same boat unfortunately. I guess people like myself are probably looking at a new profession (such as plumbing) with the view to falling back on their existing one if things don't work out. I agree that the £40k line is a bit rich ('scuse the pun) and I'm sure in reality I would not earn as much as I do now, but if I can earn a living and gain more job satisfaction than I currently do then I will be better for it.

It's a risk, and all a bit daunting really which is why it's good to see both sides of the argument.

Thanks again

Frank

 

[Winston]

Well I am currently coming up to 2 years after completing my course and no company will take you on. If you want to have ago at it be aware college practical isnt real life.

Be very careful as to what work you take on, because once you start you have got to finish the job. I have been fortunate to meet up with a few gas guys who have taught me heaps more than my course.

I have generally done well, but in recent weeks it has gone quiet again But instead of sitting at home feeling sorry for myself I meet up with one of the gas guys even for his boiler servicing for nowt. But I do get paid when I actually do some plumbing.

As a marketing tool I have also organised for our business cards to be double sided ie my details one side his the other. Good luck but be careful, and always consider would you be happy with this in your home. If the answer is no then its not good enough for a customer either.

 

[REDSAW]

career,& changing career. is just that. as long as people realise a career takes around 5 years to achieve and get on full money whether your course is for 6 days or 6 years it does not matter. full money for a self employed plumber at the moment with 7 years experience is £18,000 p.a, some do better than this but it is an average compared to recent surveys.

truck driving takes 4 months to qualify and your on £25-35,000 p.a. from the first mile. the only risk is crashing. and there are more and more jobs available each day.

 

[newbie1]

the training companies love the guys with redundancy money in their pocket and offer help finding placements which actually will turn out to be as much good as a chocolate tea cake at a barbeque
going self employed and training will swallow at least 10k of your money and then you will struggle like hell to get work because its daunting when you do that first handfull of jobs because there is noone to fall back on and once started the job has to be completed
its a vicious circle and there is a high percentage of people pay their 5k and fall by the wayside because there isnt enough work to make a living
if you are considering this route just post on here and ask how many guys in your area have a full order book as oppsed to scratching for work

 

[kingm1988]

the training companies love the guys with redundancy money in their pocket and offer help finding placements which actually will turn out to be as much good as a chocolate tea cake at a barbeque
going self employed and training will swallow at least 10k of your money and then you will struggle like hell to get work because its daunting when you do that first handfull of jobs because there is noone to fall back on and once started the job has to be completed
its a vicious circle and there is a high percentage of people pay their 5k and fall by the wayside because there isnt enough work to make a living
if you are considering this route just post on here and ask how many guys in your area have a full order book as oppsed to scratching for work

Please forgive newbie1's negativity and constant pessimism

 

[helpsy]

Please forgive newbie1's negativity and constant pessimism.

Newbie1 is only stating the realism of the situation.
I've been "out on my own" since July last year(I was made redundant the week I passed my 6129), there are many days when sat at home with no work.
You have to be realistic, you're not going to get 40-50 hours a week from the off(you'd have to be really good with all the variation of work you could fit into 50 hours straight out of training to even be able to cope.You need to take it a step at a time,otherwise you'll come unstuck), lucky if you get 4-5 hours work.
I absolutely enjoy what I do but you're dreaming if you think you'll make a decent living from day one.I expect the more experienced plumbers on here will tell you it takes years to build up a decent client base and gain trust/respect for your work, and get your name about for all the RIGHT reasons.

 

[REDSAW]

so true helpsy, started plumbing 30 years ago. this week i have 11 hours work total. next week 5 hours so far.....
dreamers.

 

[newbie1]

am not negative i am a realist and i am trying to save someone from spending 10k and then barely earning enough to cover start up costs
peoples desperation leads them to ignore the facts and the training companies still advertise plumbers wages of 40k
that is pure fantasy and like i say there was a poster on here the other day doing gas who doesnt even know corgi are no longer the regulating body and after 10days classroom was asking about subcontracting for british gas while he builds a portfolio....his training company have sucked him in and spat him out and just from his post i doubt he can even solder a joint and has no chance of earning a living
why these guys dont do a search and get the facts instead of blindly signing their savings away i dont know
i quote redsaw with 30yrs experience has 11 hours work this week what can a 6129er hope to get with limited experience
this trade is struggling like hell and the fall out rate must be huge and those that do stick it out ask them what they are earning

 

[helpsy]

The majority of people on the 6129 course with me who passed about the same time as me are NOT WORKING IN THE PLUMBING INDUSTRY, and had all good intentions of going it alone. I am one of the few who is still doing it (I consider myself very fortunate). I think I know of about 5 others who are plumbing from the course, but I saw an awful lot of people training!
I think the only option is to go out on your own, you then have to have a list of things to get sorted just to be out there like:-
Public Liability Insurance
Van Insurance/Van
Tools
Materials
Nat Ins
Fuel
amongst just a few.
If you manage to get all this then you need to be able to go out unassisted and see the job through knowing that there is nobody watching over you to lend you a hand be it physically or knowledge wise.
I remember when I did my first few jobs,if I'm honest I was really nervous myself. I still get slightly nervous now and then.
You have to be able to go into a property and recognise what system you're working on before you even start and it isn't anything like in the training workshop.
Good Luck

 

[Gassy]

Why is it such a fantasy to think plumbers earn 40k plus? I earn it, surely others do.
What on earth are people doing if they are only getting 5 hours work a week? Doesn't that tell you that you are doing something wrong? Phones don't ring themselves you know. You got to go out and find the work.
It's easy to complain " theres' no work out there". Every house I know still has a plumbing system as far as I am aware. And most have heating systems.

 

[newbie1]

no the point is established plumbers with good contacts within the trade do earn good money in the south BUT the north especially has suffered with large scale redundancies from manufacturing etc and as such the training companies have targeted those redundancy payments and left a glut of semi skilled hopefulls scrabbling for little work
so my point being what good is a glut of 6 week 6129ers all scrabbling for little work how can they compete with your experience or contacts answer is they cant so will never earn 40k a year

 

[Gassy]

I hear what you are saying Newbie. And it's a good point.

The point I was making was different.

It was in response to the comments in the thread about no work, no decent money. Sure in the south people have more money. But every thing is much more expensive.

The real problem for us plumbers is we don't know how to earn proper money. When the paying public heard and thought we were all earning 60k a year (like the press says) there was uproar. "60k for repairing taps and bending pipes!" We don't get our message over well enough. Why shouldnt we have better money. We give more value to society than poxy lawyers.

How many illnesses have been avoided because of decent sanitation?? probably saved more lives than penicillin. We have to change the publics perception of what we are worth. Then we can charge what we should be charging. Rather than having to justify dopey day rates all the time

 

[Winston]

I think to be honest this is where the problem lies. The media picked on plumbers saying they all earn mega bucks. And why not come it looks easy enough. Then the suits picked up on it and opened the cc college I went to one. Nor am I ashamed of it.

I have worked very hard since doing my course and continue to do so. But please anyone who goes to these courses you need to be aware what you will learn is the tip of the iceberg.

I remember my first job and was really nervous , I have learnt the hard way and continue to do so. Today was replacing a bath free of charge. the reason was the original bathroom installed badly. getting the panel off to change some taps and crack

But you have to take the rough with the smooth and get on with it.
It takes years to build a good reputation minutes for a bad one, and its about attitude as to how you handle it.

In some ways I have been lucky I am prepared to do work other plumbers in my area wont do ie drain clearing. I spend alot of time with gas guys and servicing seems to be easy money.

But then what happens went you cant diagnose what the problem is then it gets hard. It then becomes even harder if you really dont know what your doing and end up killing someone through poor standards of work.

 

[kingm1988]

Couldn't agree with you more Gassy. When I tell my friends I'm doing a plumbing course, I get the same response every time.....'wow mate, good on ya, I hear plumbers make heeps of money!'

The government have completely tarnished the reputation of the plumbing trade by constantly advertising this "recession proof" job that will get you earning 40k no problem. I my self wanted to take up plumbing before the recession hit, and was rather peeved to see TV advertisements on Dave for plumbing and electrical courses. They were also in newspapers and EVERYWHERE on job sites. VERY frustrating. So yeh, kind of went off topic there....my point is, with every member of the public reading what a fortune plumbers make, doing a job that frankly a vast majority can do no problem, why pay them loads just to fix my tap?

 

[Gassy]

I think we should start an online campaign. To tell the public just what value we add to society. Raise their perceptions of us!

We should start by stopping selling ourselves short all the time. £200 a day sounds expensive to most out there because they compare it to their take home pay.

They don't realise that this includes all our overheads, advertising, van, fuel, pl insurance, gas safe registration, accountant fees etc etc. Blow me £200 a day is rubbish!

We need to charge a minimum £300 a day and if the customer wants to knock you down and pay you less, walk away, because it is the wrong type of customer to build your business on. if you go in cheap they will recommend you to their friends who will all want the same low rate, trust me, I know because I have had it myself.

And what is more, the next time a cheaper plumber knocks on their door, they will drop you like a stone. So you will not have any chance of putting prices up in the future.

It's a 2 way thing. You provide a service and they pay for it. don't let them hold you to ransom.

 

[Mario 1]

The courses are just a money-spinner playing on peoples insecurities cashing in on the credit crunch. I'd say you've got just as much chance as a firm setting you on as a proper apprentice as you have in finding a placement after getting your 2-3 week fast track qualification.

I'm a third year apprentice and I learn something new everyday, on site and in college. How the F... do you justify £3000-5000's worth of 'training' in 2-3 weeks - and to think it's a class of what 10 or more paying that much!?

You'd be better off spending £100 on a few books and reading - R.D Treloar for domestic plumbing or Faber & Kell heating & air con of buildings for H&V.

My company is one of the biggest Mechanical & Electrical providers in the UK and since joining them my hourly rate has gone up - but my hours have gone down..I'm earning less than when I first started!! Same for the timeserved old boys - they're earning their lowest wage packets they've ever had!

My mates who're housebashers are even worse off, one works just 3 days a week while the other is lucky to end up with £250 a week!

I don't know if this is just old-age & bitterness from the old boys in the trade but they all tell me and all the younger lads to get out the game once I've got my papers saying the industry is F'd and whatnot...I love my job, but it is not what everyone expects by no means is this game easy money or a comfortable number where you can waltz in and earn a mint.

Theres thousands fighting for hardly any jobs..

I'd look into getting an apprenticeship in Tunneling or something obscure that will have solid work for a few year..

 

[newbie1]

undertaker now there is a true recession proof industry plumbing and gas has been swamped and is ready for a fall

 

[helpsy]

Be a politician and you can claim what you want, have months off on holiday, get another property paid for and then just stay down the road in a hotel paid for by the taxpayer, then get on tv in the house of commons(asleep) whilst they're debating how the country is run!!! Then if you've failed to do your job well or made fraudulent claims get a golden handshake, can't be bad....where's my application form!!!