syphonic toilet

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marc03

Hi.
I've recently changed my gubbins of my toilet with a flapper ext only to find out I have a syphonic system :mad:
My question is can I use a standard syphon with a syphon bomb I also may need to get a new syphon bomb too due to a slight crack.

Any advise will be appreciated :vanish:

I really don't want to be spending a fortune as a easy cheap job has already turned into a night mare :censored::censored:
Thanks
 
I'd rather try and fix it. just need to find out if I can use standard Syphon Which also wouldn't cost to much.
 
You could fix it, but it's hassle, it will also be hassle next time it goes and the time after that. Parts will become rarer and more expensive too as time goes on.
You can get a new toilet for £50 from B and Poo that comes with the flush valve and filler in the price. I know which I'd choose.
 
Yeah i'd do whatthe other guys sugessted and the a bomb probably wont fit in the bottom of the flapper anyway.
 
Id stick with the syphonic toilet tbh. Far superior flush than the modern garbage.

New bomb. New syphon. Jobs a good one.
 
I don't really want to change the toilet but thanks for the opinions guys but one my current toilet goes with my bathroom suit and two after the nightmare I'm having changing guts of the bowl I dare not try changing the whole toilet if I can help it. So back to the original question will a syphon bomb fit and syphon?? Eg like there's syphones in b and q for under a tenner.
 
Sorry to butt in guys but can I warn all plumbers that macerators will not work correctly if fitted to these type of toilets.
Thank you.
 
Sorry to butt in guys but can I warn all plumbers that macerators will not work correctly if fitted to these type of toilets.
Thank you.

please can you explain why ?
 
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Yeah sure mate. As Simon G said the input of water is far superior and it too much too soon for the macerator to cope with. Even with a standard syphon valve I sometimes have to reduce the amount of water entering the pan > macerator when the customers complain that sometimes paper is left behind in the pan, it`s like a vortex effect.
 
Right your confusing me now what the he'll is a macerator? And why is it mentioned here is it something I need to know about?
 
Don`t worry marc it`s not relevent to your problem but as other plumbers were reading the thread I apologised first then hijacked the thread to give a warning to everybody.
 
Just fit a new syphon - try to get one of the larger height syphons that are more compatible with your cistern water level. Syphon will be very cheap, the bomb will cost about £30 odd.
Well worth fixing as it will be a quality loo. Nothing will give trouble with the bomb part for a lifetime, unless someone carelessly breaks it when taking cistern off. Mine is near 40 years old & has only just recently had a new washer for first time!
 
marc03 said:
so 100% a standard syphon will fit??
eg like the following model from b and q one ?Delchem 8In Dual Flush Siphon, 5397007127676
Click to expand...

Probably will do. Only issue is the height of syphon as putting too low a syphon in will mean you will have less max water in cistern & also if it still has an ordinary ball valve then the valve arm can catch on the top edge of a too low syphon.
The bomb part just screws on to ordinary syphons, so no worry there. Just try & get proper bomb for toilet.
 
looks like ill have to get another bomb then as i did not see any screws on the old one.

ive not got a ball valve to more so that should be ok i guess.

problem i have is im unsure on how to fit a bomb as i never took notice when i ripped it out as i thought the flapper system i was putting in would work then i found out i had a syphonic toilet :(
 
The bomb normally is threaded in it's upper part & just turns (screws) onto the threaded bottom of syphon. If your bomb is not too weak at it's slight crack, it might do again but it's a pain to remove cistern if it breaks.
 
bomb.jpg also this is the old one but i dont see no thread on the bomb bit?
p.s thanks for pointing out rubber was upside down lol i most prob would have put it back in this way too ha
 
Yours must be just a push in bomb, but either type does.
 
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Best said:
Yours must be just a push in bomb, but either type does.
Click to expand...
yeah must be ill post a photo in a min and how i think its put together. then b and q tomorrow for a syphon :) i might just try the old bomb with the crack on plastic first and fingers crossed it works
 
im guessing thats how it fits on and i just fit on toilet or should i push rubber right up into tube
 
Only push the rubber washer onto the end of stem & ease the cistern carefully down onto pan & the washer will push up the stem itself & make contact to it's proper place inside the pan. Don't put the cistern at any stage off level any direction!
You could try a glue for hard plastics on the bomb, but it's your decision. It won't get any stresses after you manage to fit the cistern.
 
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One last quick question before I attempt this. Should I use the big rubber donut washer that comes with the new siphon or shall I reuse the old one ? I ask because they look different and maybe the one that comes with new siphon may restrict the bomb? Or is this not the case.
 
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marc03 said:
One last quick question before I attempt this. Should I use the big rubber donut washer that comes with the new siphon or shall I reuse the old one ? I ask because they look different and maybe the one that comes with new siphon may restrict the bomb? Or is this not the case.
Click to expand...

Usually the large donut washer is either rotted or moulded into the shape it got compressed into.
Critical that it seals for siphonic loos, but replace with proper size.
I do use the old washer sometimes tbh, but only if they are like new & I mark the front of them so to fit them in same position. Up to yourself, but you really only want to fix & refit the cistern once.
 
right then got my new siphon and ive seeled the the bomb where there crack was so here goes nothing
 
Well its fitted!
Couple of problems though when i flush the water is still rising up in the pan and also there is a dribble doWn the pan after flush then after about 5 mins it turns into a slight dribble and bowl has to do a squirt of water now and again to keep up water level :(

Im thinking i need to maybe order that new bomb?
also what would cause the constant dribble?

Also in the siphon kit there was a coupling nut and washer that screws on end of threaded part which i have not put on because ive put a siphon bomb on. should i still have put this nut on?? i cant see what help it would do and cant recall seeing one when i took old one off but i cant be 100 sure.
 
Sorry marc but i have to giggle
this is like watching a car crash in slow motion

atleast its only a toilet and not anything else :)
 
Like your perseverance with the issue. But as far as labour and materials go should have brought in a pro.
 
sorted dribble issue water level a mil to much for the new siphon.

still have issue of water riseing when flushed but water does do down better after the rise.
 
Back to the start again! Lol!
Forget about the small nut & washer - they are supplied with some new syphons incase for low level cisterns for connecting to a flush pipe.
If you have constant water dribbling into pan, you most likely haven't the syphon sealed properly into the cistern. Only other possibilities are water level too high for syphon or crack in syphon, but unlikely.
 
marc03 said:
sorted dribble issue water level a mil to much for the new siphon.

still have issue of water riseing when flushed but water does do down better after the rise.
Click to expand...

Water will rise a bit before going away on syhonic loos but if it goes too high then the bomb or/and
Donut washer are not sealing right.
 
taken it off and had a look this time took me 10 mins check me out lol!

reposited and cut steam a little and im confident as i can be it making good contact with bowl.
Cant see the big dounut washer being the problem its not budging off the big plastic nut.

Think next step id ordering a new bomb.

Best. you said you've done lots of these? Is the riseing water problem usualy down to faulty bomb? there'S a lot of cracks and splits on the plastic i have sealed them but still its not ideal and the rubber does not look the best to be fair.
 
Yea, usually the bomb washer is rotted or missing. You can buy washers that might do, but the stems can have different diameters, so probably better to fit a complete new bomb.
I have worked & used to fit siphonic loos the odd time & I always take a look at the loo before I think of starting to work at it to see if it is double siphonic type. A high up internal bowl or a larger than normal back of pan, sometimes with the shape of a double trap will indicate it's a siphonic loo.
 
Is that how it fits on? Or should the top open bit be inside siphon? Because that's how far it will go up and also as it is there in picture there is no way the bowl will sit on toilet it's well off even if I was to cut stem.
 
Hate those syhonic bogs... I'm glad the customer is doing this DIY because if a plumber had to take it apart, order bits & make multiple trips back to the property the bill would be big & the plumber accused of being a rip off!

In the rare chance I see one I will stay well away lol
 
No not at all and I was so exited when I got the part delivered. As in the photo that's how far it will go and absolutely no way will it go further :(
 
Whyme said:
is the siphon Dudley.
Click to expand...
no i got a cheap one in B and Q if you recall i asked earlyer in thread if these bombs would fit in any siphons? well guess i just found the answer :( unless theres a way to ram this thing up the one ive bought?
 
I remember and i said i wasn't sure, guess that's both of us learn t something :yesnod:
 
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