The Renewable Heat Incentive (RHI) Announcement

[EasyMCSLtd]

Hi Guys,

The DECC have just confirmed The Renewable Heat Incentive so thought this would be a good chance for everyone to throw any questions in.

The RHI is going to be available to commercial customers from July 2011 with Domestic users able to access it from October 2012. It appears the reasoning behind this is to allow the DECC to test the water with £15million of commercial jobs before hitting the much larger domestic market ie. they can work out all the kinks. Between July 2011 and October 2012 domestic users will be able to access and RHI Premium Payment which is basically a grant which looks like a half a years worth of The Renewable Heat Incentive and then can go onto the RHI once it comes in, in October 2012.

The RHI is also going to be backdated to installations of MCS Technologies by MCS Accredited Installers back to 15th July 2009.

“This incentive is the first of its kind in the world. It’ll help the UK shift away from fossil fuel, reducing carbon emissions and encouraging innovation, jobs and growth in new advanced technologies.”
(Secretary of State, Chris Huhne)

For further details on the RHI announcement see Renewable Heat Incentive (RHI) Scheme - Department of Energy and Climate Change

It is now expected that the Renewable Heat market will explode in a similar way to the Renewable Electrical market on the back of the Feed In Tariffs.

If anyone has any questions on MCS Accreditation or eligibility as an Installer to offer the Renewable Heat Incentive please don't hesitate to get in touch.

 

[ecowarm]

Thanks for info Easy

 

[EasyMCSLtd]

No problem, anyone who has any thoughts or queries just drop them over.

 

[smillsey]

how does the tarrif system work then ?

Say you get a Daikin Altherma installed, you get payed so many pence for every kw/hr you use?

 

[atty17]

How do you go about becoming MCS Accredited??

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

what was the point of the scrappage scheme?if we are moving away from fossil fuels?????

 

[EasyMCSLtd]

Hi Everyone,

Response to smillsey - if you get a Daikin Altherma system install as long as everything has MCS Accreditation, you will get £850 up front after July 2011, then from October 2012 you will be paid x pence for every kwh you require as deemed on the building being heated.

Response to atty17 - MCS Accreditation requires you to show an Installation of the technology you are looking to become approved on, show that you are competent to install it and that your company has the procedures and processes in place to meet MCS regulations, we would be happy to run through the entire MCS process over the phone in detail if you wish.

Response to gas man - the scrappage scheme was a stepping stone whilst the RHI was being developed to start to move people onto more efficient boiler systems. This was only a short term objective as the real issue is getting people away from boilers altogether.

Any questions glad to help.

 

[mooreofdevizes]

Approx. how long would it take to obtain MCS accreditation if you had no systems in place?

 

[EasyMCSLtd]

Hi mooreofdevizes,

The average time for MCS Accreditation is 4-6 months and we are currently working on an average of 4-6 weeks. With no system in place currently there is no reason why you couldn't be working towards this timescale.

If you want to discuss the full process over the phone please dont hesitate to give us a call and speak to one of our advisors on 0844 414 6041.

Many Thanks

 

[GQuigley67]

how long do you need to be trading for before you can become MCS ?

 

[mooreofdevizes]

Thanks for your help.

Hi mooreofdevizes,

The average time for MCS Accreditation is 4-6 months and we are currently working on an average of 4-6 weeks. With no system in place currently there is no reason why you couldn't be working towards this timescale.

If you want to discuss the full process over the phone please dont hesitate to give us a call and speak to one of our advisors on 0844 414 6041.

Many Thanks

 

[EasyMCSLtd]

Hi There,

There is no minimum trading period some new renewable installers are getting MCS Accreditation after forming.

Many Thanks

 

[unguided1]

How much will it cost a self employed one man band to become MCS accredited on each technology, and stay gas safe, oftec, and heatas registered, not forgetting the REAL insurance and the public liability needed to cover all of the above.
Cheers Mike

 

[GQuigley67]

I find it daunting already as Im a one man band, with £400 PLI and my van insurance is going to be around £1500 and then gas safe and other costs, would it be worth my while to get MCS as I dont really think its a big thing around here ?

 

[ecowarm]

I find it daunting already as Im a one man band, with £400 PLI and my van insurance is going to be around £1500 and then gas safe and other costs, would it be worth my while to get MCS as I dont really think its a big thing around here ?

it will be, but like you say we already have the most to pay out of all trades

 

[EasyMCSLtd]

Just picking up on the points regarding costs, running costs to maintain MCS for one technology are approx £400-£450 for the year. As for the point about whether MCS will be necessary, since the announcement on the Renewable Heat Incentive (RHI) on Thursday the heating side of the Renewables industry ie. Heat Pumps, Solar Thermal and Biomass has started to accelerate rapidly. In a similar fashion to when the Feed in Tariffs were announced on the electrical side it is now expected that the renewable heat industry will over take and experienced heating installers will be the backbone of it as long as they know the technology and have gone through MCS Certification.

Hope this helps.

 

[unguided1]

I feel that the anouncment that was made was not clear enough for potential customers and I have emails from customers telling me that they are not going to bother for a year

 

[GQuigley67]

I've still to be convinced it will be worth my while doing it here, maybe leave it for another year

 

[EasyMCSLtd]

The DECC will be working on increasing consumers awareness over the next 12 months and this should make it clearer for end users about why they should install and will drive demand even more so than it is now.

 

[Toddyplumb]

Come on guys get real. Gas safe, corgi etc have been in force for god knows how long and thats law . How many times are you undercut by the cowboys without any training, some even do it right and what happens to them ...NOTHING
Now imagine whats gonna happen to you on renewables, you are in court (I doubt it) for putting in Mrs Browns solar panels cheaper than an MCS firm , yes you honour I have qualified as a solar installer , I was just trying to save Mrs Brown (and the government and in turn me as a tax payer) some money !!!!

Some firms are MCS registered after forming!! They have paid their money ... here we go , here we go here we go

See my other post under MCS registration though you could get the customer £5100 over 20 years so it is worth considering registering MCS , I am going to look at it .
I will let you all know what happens

 

[unguided1]

Come on guys get real. Gas safe, corgi etc have been in force for god knows how long and thats law . How many times are you undercut by the cowboys without any training, some even do it right and what happens to them ...NOTHING
Now imagine whats gonna happen to you on renewables, you are in court (I doubt it) for putting in Mrs Browns solar panels cheaper than an MCS firm , yes you honour I have qualified as a solar installer , I was just trying to save Mrs Brown (and the government and in turn me as a tax payer) some money !!!!

Some firms are MCS registered after forming!! They have paid their money ... here we go , here we go here we go

sorry toddyplumb but the MCS is not the same as Gas Safe you do not have to be MCS accredited to install renewables You Only have to be MCS accredited if you want to register your customers MCS accredited equipment so that they can get any type of funding that might be available, Unlike Gas safe where it is a legal requirement that if you touch Gas you have to be registerd by law.

 

[Toddyplumb]

Exactly that was my point ( there was sarcasm in it) ! They cant enforce gas safe so there is no way MCS is gonna stop the one man band. You just need to be competative on price

 

[EasyMCSLtd]

Exactly that was my point ( there was sarcasm in it) ! They cant enforce gas safe so there is no way MCS is gonna stop the one man band. You just need to be competative on price

Hi Guys,

There will always be an chance for a one man band to not get accreditation and compete against you. However, in an industry which is fairly new territory for consumers, the only method they have of knowing the equipment is up to the job and the installer is, in addition to the fact they are installing to get the very lucrative government funding, is MCS Certification. So consumers are simply not looking at installers who dont have MCS because the question always comes up "well why havent you got it?"

 

[unguided1]

Exactly that was my point ( there was sarcasm in it) ! They cant enforce gas safe so there is no way MCS is gonna stop the one man band. You just need to be competative on price

sorry bud I completely missed
Or find the monumental loopholes, signed off another one today and still not accredited!!!

 

[Toddyplumb]

I have just come from a house (was on grand designs) I am going to go and have a look at his solar panels , have never worked since installed despite various calls and E mails , big firm !

 

[Gray0689]

I have just come from a house (was on grand designs) I am going to go and have a look at his solar panels , have never worked since installed despite various calls and E mails , big firm !

Plenty of crap solar installers out there
Surprising how many use solder fittings and fill with water lol

 

[unguided1]

I have just come from a house (was on grand designs) I am going to go and have a look at his solar panels , have never worked since installed despite various calls and E mails , big firm !

I assume its solar thermal and not PV, every time I look at a proplem with solar thermal its usualy because the boiler has been left to overide the solar thermal first thing in the morning, this means that by the time the sun is up the cylinder has already been replenished by the boiler, and the stats on the solar side of the cylinder are not allowing the solar pump to run. If this is the case time the boiler to come on late afternoon and not in the morning.

 

[SimonG]

Been reading both the current threads on this subject and would be interested in solar thermal and ground source. What I want to know is the bottom line, none of the fluffy stuff with regard to a MCS accredited installer who has all the paperwork but doesn't know how to use a spanner. What can be offered to the customer in pounds and pence for installing the solar thermal and groundsource by an accredited MCS installer?
In my area up here it's mainly oil and I've already lost one oil boiler replace, due to oil prices over the winter and all the trouble in the middle east. They've gone for an electric combi, but thats another story.

Cheers.

 

[unguided1]

Hi simonG

EasyMCSltd knows all those figures but if your working in an area where its mainly oil then yes definatley go for heatpumps and solar.

Dont limit yourself to just ground source though because they tend to be extremly expensive installs for youre averdige customers look at air source too.

 

[SimonG]

Cheers Unguided, been busy reading the RHI info and having a look at air source. The air source would have been a good alternative for the electric combi, but the costs would not have fitted with the custs "budget". One interesting point I did note is that air source will not come under the RHI until at least the 2012 introduction, but is not gauranteed as they need to conclude "succesful" investigations.

 

[unguided1]

Yeah I know I have several customers that have cancelled Typical government indecisiveness trying to be clever by making big sweeping gestures, and in reality making a huge balls up in the small print

 

[SimonG]

Would like to know what's equivalent to MCS. The RHI keeps mentioning you have to be MCS accredited "or equivalent"

 

[unguided1]

unaware of the equivelant

 

[EasyMCSLtd]

unaware of the equivelant

Hi Guys,

The equivalent would be on the product side eg. The Solar Keymark scheme which offers product certification. There is no alternative on the installer side and wont be as MCS is too prominent.

On the issue of Air Source the government has indicated Air Source will be introduced in 2012 on the RHI and RHI Premium Payments are being paid on Air Source. Air source is the future on the heat pump side and the market is widely expected to follow Europe towards an 80% Air Source 20% Ground Source split. Air source covers far more applications, is more cost effective, doesn't require space and is simpler and more straightforward to install.

 

[SimonG]

Been reading both the current threads on this subject and would be interested in solar thermal and ground source. What I want to know is the bottom line, none of the fluffy stuff with regard to a MCS accredited installer who has all the paperwork but doesn't know how to use a spanner. What can be offered to the customer in pounds and pence for installing the solar thermal and groundsource by an accredited MCS installer?
In my area up here it's mainly oil and I've already lost one oil boiler replace, due to oil prices over the winter and all the trouble in the middle east. They've gone for an electric combi, but thats another story.

Cheers.

Would be nice to see some numbers £££££ that could be shown to a prospective customer!

 

[EasyMCSLtd]

You can give the figures for the up front payments which is £850 for Air Source, £300 for Solar Thermal etc. But short of guessing you can only go off the commercial rates and then estimate how much higher they are going to be.

 

[SimonG]

Been looking at the quality sytems that have to be in place for MCS accreditation.......if it wasn't so serious it would be hilarious. Especially like the internal review where I would hold a regular meeting (at least quarterly) with myself and document said meeting. Thought it was bad enough when your on site talking to yourself, now you have to write down what your talking to yourself about. Definitely aimed at jobs for the boys and no good unless you are a pretty big company. The training and assessments are too expensive, the quality management system you would have to have in place would eat up a tremendous amount of time and money to maintain all to the detriment to the client. I just can't see how as a sole trader a quality management system would benefit or give the client a better job.

Might be an opening for developing a sole trader MCS accreditation kit!

 

[EasyMCSLtd]

Hi SimonG,

We have supported an awful lot of single employee installers through MCS Certification and once you have the procedures in place there is a common set you follow for each customer which shouldn't be too taxing. The quarterly review is to ensure you are operating to the most current standards, your procedures are up to date and you can review the systems you have in place. If you didn't hold the quarterly review then when the inspector came around in 12 months you may have missed any changes that should have been made?

 

[Wag]

Hi Gents, What a commotion. THIS SAYS IT ALL . . . . I was called today by a large installer of solar thermal and ashp's, they asked if I could take on some maintenance work as they had customers with maintenance needs. they dont do repairs and servicing!!! ALL they are interested in is the kill on the install, customer service can go hang. The MCS is registering the wrong people, its gonna be just like the double glazing gold rush of the 1980's all over again, mis-selling, misleading con men running round the country getting little old ladies to sign on the dotted line.
The government will pull the entire scheme within the next 2 years and I doubt that ashp's will ever be included, they are just not efficient enough. Why are so many organisations/quango's involved . . . . . DECC, Energy Saving Trust, Ofgem, MCS, Central government and the EU, IF you really want to get involved with that little lot ... GOOD LUCK!!

 

[eaton]

I'm mcs and I've seen so much attempted mis selling recently its untrue. Today's was ashp on 2 bed bungalow. Asked have they had any other quotes one was 14kw daiken unit. Heat loss for house is 6kw. Also following a lot of ****e solar installs around