Today was a very good day

[CMairiD]

Currently working on my gas hours to sit CCN1 and some other elements.

Most of my time thus far has been spent with service engineers who are paid by the service, so I am keenly aware that my slowness can affect their pay-packet. I mostly stay out of the way and try to learn as much as I can from them.

Today I got to do quality control inspections of servicing. No pressure to complete a certain amount and could do as many or as little as I like. We picked an OAP scheme (no driving all over the place and very little no access).

For the first time, I HAVE been the one that did everything. All the tests, the strip down, all the pressure tests, flue gas analysis -- everything they taught me to do at college and they way they taught me to do it.

It probably sounds incredibly geeky, but I really enjoyed today and loved putting into practice what I've worked so hard to learn.

 

[kirkgas]

Currently working on my gas hours to sit CCN1 and some other elements.

Most of my time thus far has been spent with service engineers who are paid by the service, so I am keenly aware that my slowness can affect their pay-packet. I mostly stay out of the way and try to learn as much as I can from them.

Today I got to do quality control inspections of servicing. No pressure to complete a certain amount and could do as many or as little as I like. We picked an OAP scheme (no driving all over the place and very little no access).

For the first time, I HAVE been the one that did everything. All the tests, the strip down, all the pressure tests, flue gas analysis -- everything they taught me to do at college and they way they taught me to do it.

It probably sounds incredibly geeky, but I really enjoyed today and loved putting into practice what I've worked so hard to learn.

it will be interesting to get your comments on how pricework services are carried out, i have never been a lover of giving guys/gals a price to do this type of work, as a bad start to the day with a few N/A's etc means they need to catch up somewhere, and something will give (and it isnt usually their earnings) and on the QA visits what are you finding, anyone been bagged yet?

 

[ferret]

same in most service companies wether price or not they all seem to want 12 services a day , can,t be done properly i don,t care who you are or are trying to kid .

 

[aggis]

same in most service companies wether price or not they all seem to want 12 services a day , can,t be done properly i don,t care who you are or are trying to kid .

Hmm, how many times have you heard ' The last time it was serviced they didn't take the case off' LOL

 

[wnjswozo]

quick fga and away,must admit when i worked at bg,we loved servicing on certain
socail housing contracts,combi after combi,we were told certain co/co2 ,if in tolerance ,dont even take cover off,

 

[Dotty]

It even states that in a couple of MI's!

can't for the life of me think which ones.

we've an Andrews Water Heater going into a government building over here. MI's basically say,

1. Connect Water
2. Connect Gas
3. Connect Electrickery
4. Turn On
5. Job Done

No combustion checks, no pressure checks (other than WP of course!), nothing!

I'm keeping a copy of the MI's to keep ourselves covered.

 

[kirkgas]

Hmm, how many times have you heard ' The last time it was serviced they didn't take the case off' LOL

got a call a good few years ago from my supervisor saying the housing had been on the phone complaining that a tenant was very unhappy with my service on her BBU (we had just taken over the contract so it was first visit by us) she was scared i didnt know how to do the job properly as it took nearly 1.5hrs and i had bits disconnected and all over a dust sheet, i even hoovered bits of it in an attempt to get rid of all the black dust (soot) that i had created, he was laughing and took great delight in telling everyone. the experts who had the contract for the last 3 yrs never took longer than 15-20mins and never removed any of the parts i did, after initially laughing i was actually raging and demanded we meet the COW at the property to discuss what i had done and how the cowboys (experts) had got away with risking the tenants for 3yrs and what were they going to do about it, no points for guessing what got done about it SFA, we only had the job for 1 yr, lost a fortune as the appliances were in a disgraceful state of repair, the original company went bust and then reinvented from the usual A+B gas to B+A gas, same vans, same guys, director and contract manager swap places, but won the contract back after our yr by slashing their price as they knew we had sorted it all out, i told the housing they deserved all they got from them,

quick fga and away,must admit when i worked at bg,we loved servicing on certain
socail housing contracts,combi after combi,we were told certain co/co2 ,if in tolerance ,dont even take cover off,

this type of thing was common place when BG took on social housing work
and in most cases was wrong as the contracts werent worded like BG private ones ie they asked for an annual safety check &a service not just a safety check but again they got away with murder and had guys doing BBU's in under an hr

 

[Dannypipe]

Interesting to know exactly you guys do as a matter of course in a routine service....and I dont want to hear follow MI!

 

[CMairiD]

it will be interesting to get your comments on how pricework services are carried out, i have never been a lover of giving guys/gals a price to do this type of work, as a bad start to the day with a few N/A's etc means they need to catch up somewhere, and something will give (and it isnt usually their earnings) and on the QA visits what are you finding, anyone been bagged yet?

I look at price work from a different side of the coin. I work in social housing, looking after day-to-day operations of a gas contract. So to me, no CP12 = no out-of-pocket. I also know that there is incentive for these guys to get in which means that tenants complaining about engineers not showing up is a load of old cobblers (mind, same tenants that have been no access year after year!).

After spending time with the service engineers on price-work, I do feel for them. Some days are pitiful. 15 on the sheet and you get into 2 after driving all over hell and creation. You're lucky to have covered your petrol!

As far as what I found today, well, it was pretty good. All combis - mixture between condensing and non. Inside did look clean, pretty much all the defects found on the original service were correct; however, the overwhelming theme of the day was more than 1mbar drop WP between the appliance and meter, in one case as much as 3. Gas rates fine and combustion via the FGA was perfect (.0004).

I knew in advance that QC wouldn't be much of an issue as we have an independent, very picky auditor carrying out a 10% audit of services. Actual work performed is generally very good; it's the paperwork that can, at times, be dreadful.

got a call a good few years ago from my supervisor saying the housing had been on the phone complaining that a tenant was very unhappy with my service on her BBU (we had just taken over the contract so it was first visit by us) she was scared i didnt know how to do the job properly as it took nearly 1.5hrs and i had bits disconnected and all over a dust sheet, i even hoovered bits of it in an attempt to get rid of all the black dust (soot) that i had created

Good one!

I have my own amusing story (NOT!) on BBUs. Did my first one last week. Walk in, my face lights up at a BBU (oh goody, I get to give this one a go) and the engineer's muttering under his breath about hating BBUs. Did it all myself, I did -- an hour and 15 minutes stripping that thing down and cleaning it out. Get to doing BP on the fire and nothing. Not a peep. Fiddled with the valve that switches between fire, boiler and boiler/fire -- still nothing. Then it dawns on me: no gas on the pre-pay.

So three very important lessons learned this week:

1. Don't fight with a rose bush. You will always lose.
2. Don't stick your fingers on the outside of a hot combustion chamber. It hurts. (Now have oven gloves in the service kit.)
3. Never, ever strip a BBU down unless you are certain there's gas on the meter!

quick fga and away,must admit when i worked at bg,we loved servicing on certain
socail housing contracts,combi after combi,we were told certain co/co2 ,if in tolerance ,dont even take cover off,

I find that BG attitude to be absolute crap. Did work today on a combi with beautiful FGA readings and perfect gas rate/burner pressure. Opened the case to find cracked insulation panels and a water leak on the DHW diaphragm.

So with BG, I suppose the panels wouldn't have been changed and the water leak would have continued until it the tenant noticed it or it corroded through the case.

 

[ferret]

quote:; however, the overwhelming theme of the day was more than 1mbar drop WP between the appliance and meter, in one case as much as 3. Gas rates fine and combustion via the FGA was perfect (.0004).


quote:
I have my own amusing story (NOT!) on BBUs. Did my first one last week. Walk in, my face lights up at a BBU (oh goody, I get to give this one a go) and the engineer's muttering under his breath about hating BBUs. Did it all myself, I did -- an hour and 15 minutes stripping that thing down and cleaning it out. Get to doing BP on the fire and nothing. Not a peep. Fiddled with the valve that switches between fire, boiler and boiler/fire -- still nothing. Then it dawns on me: no gas on the pre-pay.

So three very important lessons learned this week:





Hope you issued the NCS notices for the pipework on them , 2 engineers went to one of our new installs yesterday and found the wp down to 15mb at boiler drop of 6mb , flue through a 6" hole not made good in/out and the power on a 4m long flylead across the kitchen, shut it down??? nah they put it on their notes !!, this is what we are up against in social housing , very few give a toss.

Been in same situation with prepay meters always good for laugh aint they , you soon learn who to ask to make sure they have gas before you start , i,ve had to wait half hour at times for them to go get some on the card before i can complete lol

 

[kirkgas]

Good one!

I have my own amusing story (NOT!) on BBUs. Did my first one last week. Walk in, my face lights up at a BBU (oh goody, I get to give this one a go) and the engineer's muttering under his breath about hating BBUs. Did it all myself, I did -- an hour and 15 minutes stripping that thing down and cleaning it out. Get to doing BP on the fire and nothing. Not a peep. Fiddled with the valve that switches between fire, boiler and boiler/fire -- still nothing. Then it dawns on me: no gas on the pre-pay.

do you mean you had gas to do original TT, then serviced the boiler then ran out of gas, if so unlucky and how did you resolve or classify it, if you mean no gas for any checks then tut tut for not checking first

So three very important lessons learned this week:

1. Don't fight with a rose bush. You will always lose.
2. Don't stick your fingers on the outside of a hot combustion chamber. It hurts. (Now have oven gloves in the service kit.)

please tell us you are kidding, oh the picture that gives us, and i bet in this PC/hyper H&S day and age you are not allowed to use them as they havent been checked/assessed as suitable PPE rating

1. Never, ever strip a BBU down unless you are certain there's gas on the meter!

I find that BG attitude to be absolute crap. Did work today on a combi with beautiful FGA readings and perfect gas rate/burner pressure. Opened the case to find cracked insulation panels and a water leak on the DHW diaphragm.

So with BG, I suppose the panels wouldn't have been changed and the water leak would have continued until it the tenant noticed it or it corroded through the case. [/QUOTE]

 

[CMairiD]

No, didn't do a tightness test in advance. Walked right past the outdoor meter too! Didn't find no gas until we started to do burner pressure tests. In the meantime, the tenant buggered off so we couldn't even send her out for gas.

So we put the unit back together and did a tightness test with air. Came back the next day just as she was returning from the store with her gas charged and finished all the tests.

I remember from your tutorials that you said if you run out of gas it had to be treated as ID with gas parts stripped. That was ticking in the back of my mind and I did ask the engineer. He seemed to think that air test would suffice.

Would be an interesting point to discuss.

 

[Blake]

I personally test the gas before I start a service or any other work involving gas. Otherwise, if you find a gas leak after you have done your bit you have no way of knowing if you caused it.

I also will never do a service on a gas appliance without there actually being gas at the property.

 

[kirkgas]

No, didn't do a tightness test in advance. Walked right past the outdoor meter too! Didn't find no gas until we started to do burner pressure tests. In the meantime, the tenant buggered off so we couldn't even send her out for gas.

So we put the unit back together and did a tightness test with air. Came back the next day just as she was returning from the store with her gas charged and finished all the tests.

I remember from your tutorials that you said if you run out of gas it had to be treated as ID with gas parts stripped. That was ticking in the back of my mind and I did ask the engineer. He seemed to think that air test would suffice.

Would be an interesting point to discuss.

very dangerous procedure you have carried out there, 1st thing you should do is a visual what if the install had gas so you carried out all your work then check the meter to find it has been by-passed and no regulator on it, ( i know, college head, Victor Meldrew but we are talking possabilities) and when you come back with exactly what you did we will know whether an air test will have tested all your disconnected parts, (if you have done a full strip down service you will/may have disconnected the burner assembly which is only tested when on so air test cant get to it) but even if the air tested all the stuff you disconnected, think about what you have done and left, you air tested so the line is full of air, you didnt purge as you had no gas, you didnt cap it so the tenant goes and gets gas and then relights the boiler without purging which is potentially dangerous, (i know some will come on and say i've got my college head on and in reality it would prob be all right) and to be fair in the day i wouldnt have agreed but the bottom line is you have left a potentially dangerous situation.
we will work throught the stuff above when you answer, but not doing a TT on a landlords full service visit can be dodgy, obviously it comes down to interpretation as the reg says you must confirm it is safe to leave, so you only do one TT at the end and there is no drop, so you have confirmed it is safe, but say after your procedure shows a 2mb drop after you have completed all your work, where is the leak, can you 100% confirm it isnt on your work, not mandatory to do 2 tests but in my 2nd scenario you would have found an existing 2mb drop/ then 2mb drop at the end proves you have no leak.
i advocate disconnecting the appliance in this scenario (not having tested the gas pipes is AR, but leaving an uncommissioned/unpurged and i probably think untested gas joints ) installation requires capping till i return and check everything, your engineer has a pair made of steel or not muchy savvy (sorry) if he thinks what he left was safe. lets see what others say and what work you actually carried out

 

[tamz]

I agree with Kirk.
There may be a few IFs but things can and DO happen. It should have been capped and labeled.
No harm was done but you exposed the customer to a potential risk and you would have left yourself wide open.
Not having a go at you. Nobody is perfect and everyone has made mistakes. The main thing is to learn from them. You will (hopefully) remember this one.
Sometimes it can be a good idea to make yourself up a checklist for jobs. Just a list of proceedures and checks and tick them off as you do them.

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

same in most service companies wether price or not they all seem to want 12 services a day , can,t be done properly i don,t care who you are or are trying to kid .

very true i remember years ago doing my acops or was it acs cant remember a couple of lads from swansea council were bragging they do 8 baxi bermudas a day the lecturer asked them how do they sleep at night and refered them for re training

very dangerous procedure you have carried out there, 1st thing you should do is a visual what if the install had gas so you carried out all your work then check the meter to find it has been by-passed and no regulator on it, ( i know, college head, Victor Meldrew but we are talking possabilities) and when you come back with exactly what you did we will know whether an air test will have tested all your disconnected parts, (if you have done a full strip down service you will/may have disconnected the burner assembly which is only tested when on so air test cant get to it) but even if the air tested all the stuff you disconnected, think about what you have done and left, you air tested so the line is full of air, you didnt purge as you had no gas, you didnt cap it so the tenant goes and gets gas and then relights the boiler without purging which is potentially dangerous, (i know some will come on and say i've got my college head on and in reality it would prob be all right) and to be fair in the day i wouldnt have agreed but the bottom line is you have left a potentially dangerous situation.
we will work throught the stuff above when you answer, but not doing a TT on a landlords full service visit can be dodgy, obviously it comes down to interpretation as the reg says you must confirm it is safe to leave, so you only do one TT at the end and there is no drop, so you have confirmed it is safe, but say after your procedure shows a 2mb drop after you have completed all your work, where is the leak, can you 100% confirm it isnt on your work, not mandatory to do 2 tests but in my 2nd scenario you would have found an existing 2mb drop/ then 2mb drop at the end proves you have no leak.
i advocate disconnecting the appliance in this scenario (not having tested the gas pipes is AR, but leaving an uncommissioned/unpurged and i probably think untested gas joints ) installation requires capping till i return and check everything, your engineer has a pair made of steel or not muchy savvy (sorry) if he thinks what he left was safe. lets see what others say and what work you actually carried out

only just read this and fully agree with kirk,why did you not do a tightness first? you should do 2 before you touch a appliance and after and testing with air????? the service engineer needs his head read hes bloody lethal

 

[ferret]

spot on kirk .

 

[CMairiD]

Right, now that you've explained it, I understand and won't allow it to happen again.

From what I remember, the burner assembly wasn't removed. I think that may have been where we used the manometer hose to blow the dirt out. Then rest was hoovered.

I will talk through what you've all recommended with the engineer today as we are together again doing QC. I will switch patterns from boiler/meter to meter/boiler, doing a tightness test in advance of work and after work and never, ever touch an appliance again without checking the meter first.

Thank you!

 

[aggis]

got a call a good few years ago from my supervisor saying the housing had been on the phone complaining that a tenant was very unhappy with my service on her BBU (we had just taken over the contract so it was first visit by us) she was scared i didnt know how to do the job properly as it took nearly 1.5hrs and i had bits disconnected and all over a dust sheet, i even hoovered bits of it in an attempt to get rid of all the black dust (soot) that i had created,

Yeah had that one, lol.

Was especially thinking of bbu's, when the case hadn't been removed.
Had a spell doing QC for B G & had to get return visits to service them again ?!! The only evidence that the contrators had visited, was a burnt trail thro' the fluff/dust where they'd rolled the smoke pellet into the bbu !!!!

 

[kirkgas]

"Today was a very good day"

are you still sticking by this title????

 

[CMairiD]

Yes, because that BBU wasn't on the very good day!

Today wasn't so sporty. Got positively drenched doing gas rates and tightness (x2) tests. Then to top the day off, last job, broke the flippin' terminal on Viessmann doing FGA.

 

[kirkgas]

Yes, because that BBU wasn't on the very good day!
see i should read more carefully

Today wasn't so sporty. Got positively drenched doing gas rates and tightness (x2) tests. Then to top the day off, last job, broke the flippin' terminal on Viessmann doing FGA.

you are gonna get a dodgy rep before you start and the troops will start hiding when you ask to go out to work with them
BUT on the positive side, you always learn 10x more on the bad memory jobs, which stick with you for ever, you cant remember the thousands of straight forward jobs.