C
cammy0102
Hi guys, I was wondering if you could provide some guidance dealing with a very difficult situation I'm in.
Some of you helped me with another issue (broken drain pipe) here:
http://www.ukplumbersforums.co.uk/p...-sewerage-pipe-garden-options.html#post913865
It's probably going to be a long post to explain the situation so bear with me please.
I have a ground floor 2 bed Victorian garden flat (period conversion) in West London. I bought this flat about a 14 months ago and did a full refurbishment with new plumbing, heating, flooring, bathroom and kitchen.
There's an extension at the back of the house (I think this was probably built in the 80s when the house was converted to 2 flats) that houses the bathroom and the kitchen.
Here are couple of pictures to give you an idea of the layout
House, garden, patio and drians - Album on Imgur
Flat layout
Current situation:
About 6 months ago I started noticing that a floor tile in the bathroom was starting to crack. This gradually got worse with this tile lifting up then spreading to a couple of other tiles around it.
Tiles cracking and lifting up
Last Saturday, I my builder's men came around to have a look. They removed about 6 floor tiles and we found that the concrete floor underneath was quite damp and concrete was crumbling (mostly where the tile first started cracking) and still quite damp nearby as well (though not as much).
Damp concrete floor in the bathroom
The guys weren't really sure what was causing the damp. Initially I was thinking it was a leak from a pipe in the floor but according to them, there weren't any pipes going through the floor in the bathroom and the new pipes installed were in the walls.
There were 3 possibilities for the damp according to them -
1. The water pipe connected to the sink tap or the pipe taking waste water away from the sink (both of them are in the wall) is leaking and this water is going to the floor down the wall and is saturating the floor.
2. water leak from the toilet in to the floor
3. The floor in the extension wasn't made properly and is getting damp
They reckon if it's a leak from the toilet or pipes in the wall, it's easy enough to fix. I'm stressed that the damp in the floor is due do a badly built extension. We left it for a few days to see if it dries out and then go from there.
Background and possible causes
When I bought this flat, the day I got the key, I found that there was a leak from the old bathroom and there was a lot of water on the the bathroom floor and living room floor and all the surrounding walls saturated. If I remember correctly, where the new tiles started cracking was roughly where the old pipe was leaking (they were in a box so we had to break the box and to see the leak and then stop the water mains).
We started renovations about a month later and I remember the walls in the living room near the bathroom had damp patches that didn't dry out so I had to get damp proofing people to hack off plaster and add water proof plaster in the living room.
My builders removed the old floor tiles from bathroom and kitchen. Partition walls in the bathroom and kitchen were also removed and new walls installed. I don't remember much about the concrete floor in the bathroom but I do remember the kitchen floor (after the old tiles were removed) looking a bit damp and the plumber kept saying the floor was quite wet. This guy was there last Saturday and I mentioned about the kitchen floor but he said the kitchen floor did try out mostly eventually.
My building survey at the time of the purchase, highlighted high ground level outside, at the back of the house. Also it was paved right up to the building with no gap.
At the time, I didn't know about damp issues so I didn't think of much of this. But because of the damp walls I had, recently I decided to lower the ground level in time for winter so got a new patio few weeks ago. My landscape gardeners removed the old patio (had paving bricks on one half and concrete slabs on the other), reduced the ground level by 10-20 cm and put in a new patio with a 'french drain' (I am not sure if this was a proper french drain but more about this later).
My landscape gardeners also mentioned that, previously waste water from the plastic pipes outside the bathroom (carrying waste water from the bathroom and kitchen) were let straight on to the old patio (brick paving) and that this water was not connected to a drain. I am not sure how many years it was like this but it's possible this water was going in to the building perhaps causing some of the damp issues. When new patio was installed, my landscape gardeners installed a gully in the patio to collect the water from these 2 waste water pipes.
The flat roof on the extension was really old and was probably leaking as well. I remember there was a lot of mould on the walls in the kitchen and bathroom.
It's worth mentioning that tiles in the old bathroom and kitchen seemed fine and I can't remember seeing any cracks. So this damp floor might not have been there for years (you'd think the old tiles would have cracked if the floor was damp for a long time).
The fact that the tiles started cracking in one area (and the concrete is crumbling around this) plus tiles only started cracking this year suggest that this might be caused by a leaking pipe or toilet but then what caused the kitchen floor to be damp, during renovations? Maybe it was the water from the big leak at the time of the purchase or water leaking from the roof. Maybe there are multiple factors here.
Hope it's not too confusing for you to understand. What do you guys think? What could be causing the dampness in the floor? How should I go about investigating/fixing this?
I guess my worst fear is that the concrete floor in the extension wasn't installed properly and the moisture is rising from the saturated ground. If this is the case, to fix the floor, I'd have to rip out the new kitchen and the bathroom which I don't really want to do!
French drain
OK finally the french drain..I told landscaper gardener I wanted the ground level reduced (with a new patio) and a french drain that went around the back of the house and the extension.
New patio, gully and french drain
But all he's done is leave about a 10-12 cm gap between the house + extension and the patio and back filled it with gravel. So the french drain isn't any deeper than the depth of the patio + type 1 base. I'm guessing this is about 15-20 cm deep maybe less. The new ground level is about 10 cm lower, near the extension and about 20 cm lower near the living room. Do you think the 'french drain' needs to be deeper?
Thank you in advance for your input and apologies again for the long post.
PS: I bought an EcoAir DD122 dehumidifier start of this year because of the damp problems I had. I left this in the bathroom last couple of nights so the floor might dry out but so far I haven't seen a difference. problem is because there's no power socket for it in the bathroom, i have to plug it in the kitchen so I can't close the bathroom door properly hence it's not fully closed. Could I get an adaptor for the shaver socket and plug the dehumidifier in to this?
Some of you helped me with another issue (broken drain pipe) here:
http://www.ukplumbersforums.co.uk/p...-sewerage-pipe-garden-options.html#post913865
It's probably going to be a long post to explain the situation so bear with me please.
I have a ground floor 2 bed Victorian garden flat (period conversion) in West London. I bought this flat about a 14 months ago and did a full refurbishment with new plumbing, heating, flooring, bathroom and kitchen.
There's an extension at the back of the house (I think this was probably built in the 80s when the house was converted to 2 flats) that houses the bathroom and the kitchen.
Here are couple of pictures to give you an idea of the layout
House, garden, patio and drians - Album on Imgur
Flat layout
Current situation:
About 6 months ago I started noticing that a floor tile in the bathroom was starting to crack. This gradually got worse with this tile lifting up then spreading to a couple of other tiles around it.
Tiles cracking and lifting up
Last Saturday, I my builder's men came around to have a look. They removed about 6 floor tiles and we found that the concrete floor underneath was quite damp and concrete was crumbling (mostly where the tile first started cracking) and still quite damp nearby as well (though not as much).
Damp concrete floor in the bathroom
The guys weren't really sure what was causing the damp. Initially I was thinking it was a leak from a pipe in the floor but according to them, there weren't any pipes going through the floor in the bathroom and the new pipes installed were in the walls.
There were 3 possibilities for the damp according to them -
1. The water pipe connected to the sink tap or the pipe taking waste water away from the sink (both of them are in the wall) is leaking and this water is going to the floor down the wall and is saturating the floor.
2. water leak from the toilet in to the floor
3. The floor in the extension wasn't made properly and is getting damp
They reckon if it's a leak from the toilet or pipes in the wall, it's easy enough to fix. I'm stressed that the damp in the floor is due do a badly built extension. We left it for a few days to see if it dries out and then go from there.
Background and possible causes
When I bought this flat, the day I got the key, I found that there was a leak from the old bathroom and there was a lot of water on the the bathroom floor and living room floor and all the surrounding walls saturated. If I remember correctly, where the new tiles started cracking was roughly where the old pipe was leaking (they were in a box so we had to break the box and to see the leak and then stop the water mains).
We started renovations about a month later and I remember the walls in the living room near the bathroom had damp patches that didn't dry out so I had to get damp proofing people to hack off plaster and add water proof plaster in the living room.
My builders removed the old floor tiles from bathroom and kitchen. Partition walls in the bathroom and kitchen were also removed and new walls installed. I don't remember much about the concrete floor in the bathroom but I do remember the kitchen floor (after the old tiles were removed) looking a bit damp and the plumber kept saying the floor was quite wet. This guy was there last Saturday and I mentioned about the kitchen floor but he said the kitchen floor did try out mostly eventually.
My building survey at the time of the purchase, highlighted high ground level outside, at the back of the house. Also it was paved right up to the building with no gap.
At the time, I didn't know about damp issues so I didn't think of much of this. But because of the damp walls I had, recently I decided to lower the ground level in time for winter so got a new patio few weeks ago. My landscape gardeners removed the old patio (had paving bricks on one half and concrete slabs on the other), reduced the ground level by 10-20 cm and put in a new patio with a 'french drain' (I am not sure if this was a proper french drain but more about this later).
My landscape gardeners also mentioned that, previously waste water from the plastic pipes outside the bathroom (carrying waste water from the bathroom and kitchen) were let straight on to the old patio (brick paving) and that this water was not connected to a drain. I am not sure how many years it was like this but it's possible this water was going in to the building perhaps causing some of the damp issues. When new patio was installed, my landscape gardeners installed a gully in the patio to collect the water from these 2 waste water pipes.
The flat roof on the extension was really old and was probably leaking as well. I remember there was a lot of mould on the walls in the kitchen and bathroom.
It's worth mentioning that tiles in the old bathroom and kitchen seemed fine and I can't remember seeing any cracks. So this damp floor might not have been there for years (you'd think the old tiles would have cracked if the floor was damp for a long time).
The fact that the tiles started cracking in one area (and the concrete is crumbling around this) plus tiles only started cracking this year suggest that this might be caused by a leaking pipe or toilet but then what caused the kitchen floor to be damp, during renovations? Maybe it was the water from the big leak at the time of the purchase or water leaking from the roof. Maybe there are multiple factors here.
Hope it's not too confusing for you to understand. What do you guys think? What could be causing the dampness in the floor? How should I go about investigating/fixing this?
I guess my worst fear is that the concrete floor in the extension wasn't installed properly and the moisture is rising from the saturated ground. If this is the case, to fix the floor, I'd have to rip out the new kitchen and the bathroom which I don't really want to do!
French drain
OK finally the french drain..I told landscaper gardener I wanted the ground level reduced (with a new patio) and a french drain that went around the back of the house and the extension.
New patio, gully and french drain
But all he's done is leave about a 10-12 cm gap between the house + extension and the patio and back filled it with gravel. So the french drain isn't any deeper than the depth of the patio + type 1 base. I'm guessing this is about 15-20 cm deep maybe less. The new ground level is about 10 cm lower, near the extension and about 20 cm lower near the living room. Do you think the 'french drain' needs to be deeper?
Thank you in advance for your input and apologies again for the long post.
PS: I bought an EcoAir DD122 dehumidifier start of this year because of the damp problems I had. I left this in the bathroom last couple of nights so the floor might dry out but so far I haven't seen a difference. problem is because there's no power socket for it in the bathroom, i have to plug it in the kitchen so I can't close the bathroom door properly hence it's not fully closed. Could I get an adaptor for the shaver socket and plug the dehumidifier in to this?
Last edited by a moderator:
