CH Pump Valve - converting to male BSP

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marshr02

Hi there - bought a pegler CH pump valve - 1 1/2" to 22mm compression fitting (are there any other with difference connections). Thought that I could remove the compression nut and olive and connect to a 3/4" BSP female coupler - but the screw thread won't engage in the coupler. I've done this before with 15mm compression fittings. Thanks for any help...
 
If you go to any good commercial merchants. (Bss or pipe centre) they will have these valves available
 
You won't be able to do it with the 3/4" because its a smaller size. You'll have to replace the nut and olive to. Ideally you'd get yourself another 3/4" olive for the job, but ive never had any problems compressing 22mm on to a 3/4" pipe
 
No - think I've not described it. I expected to be able to remove the nut and olive and throw away. Then get a 3/4" BSP female and screw into that with Loctite string or sim.
 
Making up a UFH manifold - only 2 loops - so too big for conservatory kit and too small to spend stupid money on pre-made. The manifold will be quite heavy and could flex while being installed/maintained - and so the compression fittings could weep. Second reason is if I have any problems with the compression fittings then I would usually cut 20mm of the pipe and start again - in this case there would be no room for that before hitting a T piece.
 
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SimonG said:
Not another underfloor heating bodge. Do it properly.
Click to expand...
What's to bodge. Has auto air purge, drain points, overheat stat, balance controls on each of the two legs, blending valve. The control is a modified S plan - using two zone valves. If you examine a manufactured manifold you'll see these are the main components - all I've missed off on careful consideration is a pressure valve. UFH is a fairly simple technology really, and there's no need for the high price of the off the shelf components other that it's still seen as an aspirational product. This is fitted in my basic terraced house not some grand designs jobbie...
 
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Use a short bit of 22mm copper and a 22mm compression to female 3/4 adaptor
 
Thanks for reply scott. Not sure I get it. The Pump valve has a 22m compression end that I want to avoid, and the thread left after the nut & olive are removed isn't 3/4" BSP..
 
SimonG said:
I see it took an extra 5 minutes to defend your bodge. Crack on.
Click to expand...
I really welcome any info as to why what I'm doing could be improved - so it's worth putting the info out to be genially critiqued. My main areas of concern are too many joints with a risk of leaking, the second being I've missed something key, and third not wanting to create something that is difficult for a 3rd party to fix/maintain in the future.
 
marshr02 said:
I really welcome any info as to why what I'm doing could be improved - so it's worth putting the info out to be genially critiqued. My main areas of concern are too many joints with a risk of leaking, the second being I've missed something key, and third not wanting to create something that is difficult for a 3rd party to fix/maintain in the future.
Click to expand...

You've knocked together your own underfloor heating manifold, but are struggling with a thread. Says it all really. Like I said to do it properly.
 
marshr02 said:
Simon - had a bad day?
Click to expand...

Aye a real shocker! Even more so when I read about diy ufh systems :) Just rounds it off for me :)

On a more serious note, it's not where you connected the two port is it, different threads on 2 ports and conventional fittings.
 
SimonG said:
Aye a real shocker! Even more so when I read about diy ufh systems :) Just rounds it off for me :)

On a more serious note, it's not where you connected the two port is it, different threads on 2 ports and conventional fittings.
Click to expand...
If you mean the 2 port zone valve no - these are located on the ground floor.
 
Put the old fitting back on, put a spanner behind the nut and tap it off with a hammer. Crude but effective.
 
SimonG said:
Put the old fitting back on, put a spanner behind the nut and tap it off with a hammer. Crude but effective.
Click to expand...
Sorry lost you? The fitting is brand new, not used yet. Nothing is jammed or similar.
 
Okay - just for info here is the DIY UFH *bodge*; Conventional terrace house with radiators. Put pipes in screed in cold basement, inserted two 2-port zone valves (in ground floor) into flow pipe from boiler to split into a 2 zone system, with two programmable thermostatic controls, one in the basement, one in the hall (like normal) to among other things allow for the different thermal characteristics of UFH vs Rads. The *manifold* serving just 2 small loops (small house - 2 basement rooms knocked into one) has OH pipe stat as well as pump, and blending valve. The pump, and zone valves are likely items to be replaced and are all off the shelf and familiar to all plumbers so nothing too exotic.
 
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Solder the pipe into the compression end if you want to avoid a compression fitting, then hope the valve works in 5 years time. What about supporting the pump properly?

Are you really tight for space or something?
 
marshr02 said:
Okay - just for info here is the DIY UFH *bodge*; Conventional terrace house with radiators. Put pipes in screed in cold basement, inserted two 2-port zone valves (in ground floor) into flow pipe from boiler to split into a 2 zone system, with two programmable thermostatic controls, one in the basement, one in the hall (like normal) to among other things allow for the different thermal characteristics of UFH vs Rads. The *manifold* serving just 2 small loops (small house - 2 basement rooms knocked into one) has OH pipe stat as well as pump, and blending valve. The pump, and zone valves are likely items to be replaced and are all off the shelf and familiar to all plumbers so nothing too exotic.
Click to expand...

What blending valve, just out of interest.
 
Nostrum said:
Solder the pipe into the compression end if you want to avoid a compression fitting, then hope the valve works in 5 years time. What about supporting the pump properly?

Are you really tight for space or something?
Click to expand...
Wow, a genuine reply. Thanks. Yes a little tight for space. I'm aiming for support the entire thing properly, and the question at the start of this was a throwaway just aimed at slightly improving my design. Cheers
 
ive no problem with someone making up a manifold especially as it sounds like he has incorporated all the necessary parts i agree that manifolds are over priced for what they are especially for small areas
ok he has come across a problem he didnt expecct thats why he has come here
either we make this forum a closed shop or we give advice we cant have it both ways
to the op unfortunately 22mm fittings dont have 3/4 threads on them but you can get pump cons with 3/4 threads try a good merchants
 
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BOD said:
Send us a pic when it fails
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Give me a reason why it might fail? I might change my design. Nothing committed to yet. Otherwise just throwing around some negativity doesn't reflect well on your professionalism.
 
Okay - will check this out. I came on this for technical advice, and I may just have come away with something at last.
 
SimonG said:
A bath mixer valve. Interesting.
Click to expand...
Okay - will check this out. I came on this for technical advice, and I may just have come away with something at last. YES you're right - no idea why I settled on this yonks ago - the Heatguard UFH Blending Valve looks the right one though?
 
You're getting plenty of advice friend. We've seen lots of UFH lash ups in the past.

Why should we believe yours is any different?
 
croppie said:
You're getting plenty of advice friend. We've seen lots of UFH lash ups in the past.

Why should we believe yours is any different?
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I guess I've looked at the off the shelf designs, particularly those that aim to fit into a hybrid system with radiators and made an attempt to replicate this to suit my slightly smaller scale. I'm not proposing to do ANYTHING different in principle. Clearly the blending valve *may* be the wrong one (I believe Heatguard touted their TMV2 valve as also suitable for UFH systems about 5 years ago before coming up with a dedicated valve able to take higher flow rates (much more than I need) - so I still feel the TMV2 valve would be okay if pushed) So why could my system go wrong - poor workmanship, basic principles wrong, or wrong items selected?
 
stevetheplumber said:
ive no problem with someone making up a manifold especially as it sounds like he has incorporated all the necessary parts i agree that manifolds are over priced for what they are especially for small areas
ok he has come across a problem he didnt expecct thats why he has come here
either we make this forum a closed shop or we give advice we cant have it both ways
to the op unfortunately 22mm fittings dont have 3/4 threads on them but you can get pump cons with 3/4 threads try a good merchants
Click to expand...
Cheers. I'll make an admission. I bought the blending valve about 5 years ago, it's taken this long to lay a concrete floor with insulation!! The invoice, and instructions call it an UFH Blending valve - the item itself is labelled TMV2. So do at the moment I'm keen to see if I should get the newer one?
 
stevetheplumber said:
ive no problem with someone making up a manifold especially as it sounds like he has incorporated all the necessary parts i agree that manifolds are over priced for what they are especially for small areas
ok he has come across a problem he didnt expecct thats why he has come here
either we make this forum a closed shop or we give advice we cant have it both ways
to the op unfortunately 22mm fittings dont have 3/4 threads on them but you can get pump cons with 3/4 threads try a good merchants
Click to expand...

Nearly missed that you changed your post.

Who said it's a closed shop. Only saying to do it right.

At least he knows now that there is a possibility that he doesn't have the right blending valve.
 
SimonG said:
Nearly missed that you changed your post.

Who said it's a closed shop. Only saying to do it right.

At least he knows now that there is a possibility that he doesn't have the right blending valve.
Click to expand...
Simon. See my posts on the Heatguard TMV2. It may have been designed for DHW originally, and has a fast response to suit anti-scalding needs BUT 5 years ago this is what was provided to me under the title "UFH blending valve - I'm guessing it was after this that Heatguard came up with the dedicated product that I would assume isn't fast response so can have a large internal bore to handle the high flow rates of a large UFH installation. I would definitely be concerned if using a closed system product for DHW as it would likely have corrosion problems, but the other way?? cheers
 
SimonG said:
Is there a question in there?
Click to expand...
Yes. Putting a component into a closed heating system with inhibitors or sim. that was designed to take fresh water raises common sense alarm bells - any opinion here. The other bits, temp output range, and flow rate to suit my loading I'm satisfied are okay
 
marshr02 said:
Yes. Putting a component into a closed heating system with inhibitors or sim. that was designed to take fresh water raises common sense alarm bells - any opinion here. The other bits, temp output range, and flow rate to suit my loading I'm satisfied are okay
Click to expand...

I'd be more concerned the other way round. If in the 5 years since you bought the original valve they have decided to produce a dedicated unit then I would suggest you use the new one, if only for peace of mind.
 
SimonG said:
I'd be more concerned the other way round. If in the 5 years since you bought the original valve they have decided to produce a dedicated unit then I would suggest you use the new one, if only for peace of mind.
Click to expand...
I'm going to contact Reliance tech dept tomorrow to check.
 
marshr02 said:
I'm going to contact Reliance tech dept tomorrow to check.
Click to expand...

If you ring them get them to confirm whatever they tell you via e-mail or post and don't forget to give it the once over every year.
 
Okay. Think this thread is coming to a close. Thanks for the replies, thanks Simon (in the end:D). Noticed a lot a negative comments, which themselves were 'liked' by a lot of people - which actually is really unpleasant being on the end of. If anyone knows a good cheap supplier of small scale manifolds then I would be interested. While this fairly simple technology is still sold at a large premium then I still think if required I will make my own, following similar principles. I'll try to remember to put a picture of the cats sleeping on the 25 degree screed for 'BOD' whoever you are....
 
croppie said:
Can't help but think back to this thread.

http://www.ukplumbersforums.co.uk/c...loor-heating-layout-system-advise-please.html
Click to expand...
Finally finished reading this thread. There is little comparison other than UFH. This bloke is trying something very unorthodox, whereas I'm just replicating well established principles. Some of the comments smacked of bullying to me. On a constructive note, feeding UFH off the return of the last rad is interesting...clearly the pipes should have been pressurised during screeding, and some controls need to be in place to prevent overheating, but in some properties the intermittent nature of rad heating would be offset by the thermal inertia of the building structure. Anyhow there's my open mind going off again....:sunny:
 
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