Poor flush from new toilet

[mikeyb1]

Hi everyone, hoping someone can advise me.
I recently installed a new close coupled toilet bought from Focus before they shut down. The old toilet was fine and flushed ok, but once this was installed, when flushed struggled to move a piece of tissue. The water rises almost to the rim then slowly settles down. At first I thought it was because the pan outflow was about half an inch lower than the soil pipe, and I had used an offset connector. I have now raised the pan onto a plinth and replaced the connector with a 14degree angled one.This all seems right and the pan is now at the same height as the pipe.
Still got the problem though, and having read a few similar posts on the same problem I am a bit confused by the talk of "bombs" and siphonic and nonsiphonic systems etc. My pan has a large hole in the top where the cistern outflow sits with it's donut washer, I am not sure what a bomb is or whether my cistern has one.How do I tell? Also, maybe there is some kind of adjustment on the flushing mechanism.Do all modern cisterns have bombs, or is it something that can be fitted to any existing set-up?
If anyone can help or provide pictures of how these fit, it would be greatly appreciated.Thanks Mike

 

[Puddle]

Well a picture would be good but probably not a siphonic w/c


Sounds like a blockage remove pan and make sure nothing has been stuck down it,like a plastic bag ect,if from focus ,who knows,take it you never dropped owt down main soil pipe when you replaced

inho

 

[PlumbBobBob]

i agree it sounds like a blockage as puddle says

 

[snowhead]

You need to fish out the plastic bag you used to bung the waste up to stop the smell whilst you cleaned up the water you spilt removing the old pan.

Wet vac in the waste pipe seal the rest of the gap with another bag and suck.

 

[glenno1]

i agree a blockage probably in the horizontal pipe somewere

 

[mikeyb1]

I am quite confident there is no blockage, plastic bags or otherwise in the pipe,the old toilet worked fine. Like I have previously said, other forum(s) suggest for the identical problem it might be something to do with the siphonic action of the toilet and mention the "bomb" and whether it is sealed or misaligned.Is there anyone that knows about this?

 

[mountainman]

Many of us know about syphonic pans and many other such things. The biggest problem is that a diagnosis consists of lots of information which is gleaned in a few minutes of 'hands On' combined with knowlede and experience.

Why do you believe that the pan is Syphonic anyway?

 

[mikeyb1]

Many of us know about syphonic pans and many other such things. The biggest problem is that a diagnosis consists of lots of information which is gleaned in a few minutes of 'hands On' combined with knowlede and experience.

Why do you believe that the pan is Syphonic anyway?

I don't believe, I just don't know. Like I said earlier I am confused, and having read a bit more I don;t think it is but I would still like to know what an aspirator is and how it works and whether it is only used on siphonic toilets.

 

[glenno1]

Syphonic wastes are (s) shaped and narrower and an aspirator is a valve used on these wc,s

 

[mikeyb1]

Thanks Glenno for the info. However, i'm sure now that mine is not a siphonic one with an aspirator. I eliminated the possibility of a blockage by taking the pan and cistern outside and placing the outflow over a grid, filled up with a bucket to the normal mark and flushed. A full flush wouldn't shift a single piece of tissue first time, and the water flushed in, swirled around until it almost touched the rim then back down, just as was before. There is no blockage in the pan either, so is it a poorly designed pan or is it something to do with the rate of flow from the flush mechanism? The flush mechanism has 3 adjusters on it, one for half flush, one for full flush and another on what seems to be some kind of float inside the main chamber. Has anyone got any thoughts on this since I have ruled out the blockage possibility?Thanks Mike

 

[jackyp1234]

blocked could be in pipework?

 

[pollo]

THE BOMB! you are talking about is another name for the doughnut washer.

 

[mikeyb1]

blocked could be in pipework?

I appreciate you taking the time to reply, but in my previous post I mentioned I have ruled out the possibility of a blockage.thanks anyway

 

[mountainman]

You could have a sub-standard pan, they're not unknown. And as you've taken it outside you have eliminated the soil pipework.
One thing I've come across on existing installations is somethig (plastic bag, tissue etc) travelling from the cistern into the pan and partially blocking the flushing holes.

 

[mikeyb1]

You could have a sub-standard pan, they're not unknown. And as you've taken it outside you have eliminated the soil pipework.
One thing I've come across on existing installations is somethig (plastic bag, tissue etc) travelling from the cistern into the pan and partially blocking the flushing holes.

I have examined the pan closely and there are no foreign objects or blockages, is it possible the adjustment of the flush mechanism( and rate of water flow) could cause such a problem?

 

[glenno1]

The level of water should never rise in the pan unless it is blocked or as said before it is poorly made

 

[Paulus]

If you have ruled out a blockage anywhere in the pan ie flush water entering and exiting then it looks like you have a duff pan.

 

[Paulus]

THE BOMB! you are talking about is another name for the doughnut washer.

Welcome pollo.

Sorry to contradict you but the BOMB ain't the doughnut washer, it is part of the flush mechanism on a syphonic toilet.

 

[mikeyb1]

If you have ruled out a blockage anywhere in the pan ie flush water entering and exiting then it looks like you have a duff pan.

Well it looks like you're absolutely spot on.Went out today and bought a new toilet, Armitage Shanks Sandringham on offer at Screwfix £99. I have set the new pan up with the old cistern and it works like a dream, so I'll probably keep it this way as it will save me the hassle of assembling and fixing the new A.S.cistern( which will probably end up on Fleebay.)
The defective pan ,I think is more of a bad design rather than badly made. The water seems to flush out in a swirling motion, probably intended to clean all the pan sides, but unfortunately any tissue seems to stay in the centre(like the eye of a hurricane) of the swirl and not go anywhere. And for anyone interested it was a Shires toilet.
Thanks to all who contributed.

 

[mountainman]

I love it when a pan comes together...

 

[glenno1]

flushed with success

 

[snowhead]

I glad things panned out well.

 

[glenno1]

You got there in the bend