Disaster and stress!

[Fedup]

Hello, any advice would be extremely welcome. This new external boiler only has a tiny spout as a condensate pipe, and the same with a vapour pipe. Am I right that they should go into a drain? I am also not happy with it being butted right up to the conservatory - is there a rule as to distance? ( there is loads of space)
Hopefully some photo's will explain things a little better. Thanks for reading.

 

[lame plumber]

MFIs will detail distances needed for clearance. re the condensate drain off, it needs to go to a drain or soakaway, thats just going to destroy your brickwork in the long term. re the isolating switch, I prefer mine to have some protection, they are water resistant but there are limits and the cable run should be in conduit. All in all not very satisfactory. I prefer a decent concrete base as well not slabs on sand/cement

 

[Fedup]

Thank you LP, should the wiring sit directly onto the hot pipes?

 

[lame plumber]

the cable used should be heat resistant and it is not best practice to lay it over pipework and from the pictures seen, I havent noticed any earth bond cabling to the oil feed pipe , you should have a 10mm yellow/green cable to oil supply but as this an external boiler it may not apply, although Im not sure, I would rather have it earth as when your cable on the pipe work deteriorates over time making the pipework live a decent earth bond would be nice to stop it killing the likes of me servicing your system. worst case scenario here, not always going to happen but!

 

[Fedup]

Thank you lame plumber ( again). There is a green and yellow earth wire, it was attached to the old boiler. However, the end of it has been chopped off, so it isn't connected. The workmen managed to blow up two showers, there hasn't been any 'making good' in the holes in the walls, I have one soaked carpet, with rust stains, from a leak. So hope you can understand the distress!

 

[lame plumber]

nasty, but cheer up 2nd half and england lead 6-0

 

[Fedup]

nasty, but cheer up 2nd half and england lead 6-0

:grin: :grin:

 

[Irish]

nasty, but cheer up 2nd half and england lead 6-0

Not anymore !!

 

[Fedup]

So this copper wire isn't an earth wire? Is ok to pull it to see if it's attached?

 

[lame plumber]

Not anymore !!

No 12-6

 

[Dotty]

No no no!

That's your fire valve remote phial.

Break that you'll have no heat!

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

so this copper wire isn't an earth wire? Is ok to pull it to see if it's attached? View attachment 10847

no dont pull that its a fire valve

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

THAT IS ONE ROUGH OIL BOILER INSTALL,installer should be shot

 

[lame plumber]

cant see clearly but is that a 90degree or 65 degree firevalve

 

[Fedup]

So this is a fire valve ( very old one that was for the oil AGA ) now connected to a tiger loop? Where will I find the yellow and green earth wire?

 

[SimonG]

I've seen worse but it's not good. Cables should be sleeved, pipes should be insulated, condensate to drain or soakaway, boiler too close to wall (the expansion vessel is at the back of these and you'll never get at it), hole through wall should have been closed up etc etc etc.

Couple of questions for op.
1. Where's the tank in relation to oil boiler? I find tiger loops are generally fitted by people who don't know what they are doing.
2. How far from boiler is the fire valve?
3. Have you had the building control certificate from your local council for the installation?
4. How many quotes/estimates did you get for the install? Did you use the cheapest? Did you ask to see previous work?

 

[SimonG]

cant see clearly but is that a 90degree or 65 degree firevalve

90 degree LP

 

[SimonG]

So this is a fire valve ( very old one that was for the oil AGA ) now connected to a tiger loop? Where will I find the yellow and green earth wire?View attachment 10848

You probably won't find an earth cable. If the oil is only going to the external boiler then it is no longer an incoming service so shouldn't need it. Or so the electrician I use tells me.

 

[lame plumber]

if you cant see it it aint there. if your fire valve now rests in your new boiler its the wrong spec, but better than none

 

[lame plumber]

You probably won't find an earth cable. If the oil is only going to the external boiler then it is no longer an incoming service so shouldn't need it. Or so the electrician I use tells me.

thought that might be the case, but its nice to have a good earth if your the muppet touching things!!

re tiger loop, I keep getting told they are good to use even when not req as they reduce air in oil line and prevent pumps cavitating and wearing out. Not sure on that one but dont fit unless height issues involved.

 

[SimonG]

thought that might be the case, but its nice to have a good earth if your the muppet touching things!!

re tiger loop, I keep getting told they are good to use even when not req as they reduce air in oil line and prevent pumps cavitating and wearing out. Not sure on that one but dont fit unless height issues involved.

He bonds the htg f & r, hot and cold pipes as they enter.

The tiger loop will reduce the wear on a pump if it's near it's limits. But I generally find them fitted when not required because the installer doesn't even understand the use of them. Took one out last year. Bunded oil tank by front gate, garden dropped down a few feet and an old worcester heatslave in the utility room. Burner was probably two foot below bottom of oil tank.

 

[Irish]

No 12-6

Knew I shoulda said nothing! Think ye will do the grand slam this year

 

[lame plumber]

He bonds the htg f & r, hot and cold pipes as they enter.

The tiger loop will reduce the wear on a pump if it's near it's limits. But I generally find them fitted when not required because the installer doesn't even understand the use of them. Took one out last year. Bunded oil tank by front gate, garden dropped down a few feet and an old worcester heatslave in the utility room. Burner was probably two foot below bottom of oil tank.

thought as much re tg loop, re bonding, 4mm supplementary bond isnt really the same as a 10mm earth bond, esp with a external boiler, I like to think I wont be jigging it if cables split esp on an install such as this! no offense to op

 

[Fedup]

I've seen worse but it's not good. Cables should be sleeved, pipes should be insulated, condensate to drain or soakaway, boiler too close to wall (the expansion vessel is at the back of these and you'll never get at it), hole through wall should have been closed up etc etc etc.

Couple of questions for op.
1. Where's the tank in relation to oil boiler? I find tiger loops are generally fitted by people who don't know what they are doing.
2. How far from boiler is the fire valve?
3. Have you had the building control certificate from your local council for the installation?
4. How many quotes/estimates did you get for the install? Did you use the cheapest? Did you ask to see previous work?

1. The tank is about 30 feet away.
2. 26 inches away, and about 23 inches from the vapour release spout.
3. No, do I need one?
4. I had 3 quotes, this was for new combi boiler, so the old tanks had to be removed. £3,980!

 

[lame plumber]

Knew I shoulda said nothing! Think ye will do the grand slam this year

still got an excuse to celebrate with that new baby

 

[SimonG]

1. The tank is about 30 feet away.
2. 26 inches away, and about 23 inches from the vapour release spout.
3. No, do I need one?
4. I had 3 quotes, this was for new combi boiler, so the old tanks had to be removed. £3,980!

1. What height is the tank in relation to the boiler?
2. Too close to boiler.
3. Oh yes, as a famous dog would say. Was it commissioned? or have you not got the extended 2 year warranty either? i.e. the installation registered with worcester

 

[lame plumber]

OP is now feeling as stressed as Irish supporters, you may want to get your boy back to remedy things.

 

[Fedup]

1. What height is the tank in relation to the boiler?
2. Too close to boiler.
3. Oh yes, as a famous dog would say. Was it commissioned? or have you not got the extended 2 year warranty either? i.e. the installation registered with worcester

Worcester Bosch 7 year guarantee, parts and labour. Yes it was supposedly commissioned, but I'm not sure what that would entail.
Please tell me what commissioned is? I guess you've all realised it's a woman writing this!

 

[lame plumber]

a piece of paper confirming the boiler is set up and running correctly, normally part of service manual paperwork and essential if you want a warranty to work

 

[SimonG]

I'd be interested to hear how you've got a 7 yr warranty on an oil boiler!

Commissioned is the act of completing a CD11 and all the necessary checks that go with it to confirm correct and safe operation.

The installation/commisioning should have then been registered either with a competent person scheme or with building control and you should have had a certificate off of them that you keep with your house docs when/if you sell. You'll need it.

 

[SimonG]

Oh and welcome to the forum

Even if it has been registered under warranty Worcester can still refuse to honour it as the boiler is not installed to the manufacturers instructions (clearances).

You may find that they'll replace an oil pump if needed, but if the expansion vessel goes you could very well be told 'we can't touch that, too close to wall, health and safety'

 

[Fedup]

Yes, it was commissioned then, I have it all filled out in the instruction manual. It states on the receipt that it is guaranteed for 7 years, parts and labour.

Thank you for the welcome, and thank you to all of you.

 

[Koogatubac]

Fedup can you take a picture of this so we can check it for you? Welcome to the forum

 

[Dotty]

Moving to the oily forum

 

[Best]

re tiger loop, I keep getting told they are good to use even when not req as they reduce air in oil line and prevent pumps cavitating and wearing out. Not sure on that one but dont fit unless height issues involved.

Tigerloops def seem to help the oil pumps last longer.
What can't be argued is that they remove air from the oil & the oil will be slightly preheated due to the friction of the pump. Warmer oil in winter & less nozzle drip will save money. I think they are worth their price & it means the oil tank can be more hidden, being lower sometimes.

 

[Fedup]

Fedup can you take a picture of this so we can check it for you? Welcome to the forum

The commissioning bit?

 

[Dotty]

CO2's high for my liking

 

[Fedup]

For my liking, the rest is rubbish, condensate hasn't been installed in accordance, as it's dripping onto the oil pipe.

 

[Dotty]

It's going to be worth your while to get an OFTEC qualified engineer in, fedup.

Whereabouts in the country are you, one of us may be within spitting distance.

 

[Fedup]

Lincolnshire, near Louth

 

[WHPES]

You should have a CD11 and CD10 form as well as this, and also a Building Control Completion Certificate from your LABC dept or the guarantee is worthless and your home insurance may not cover you in the event of a fire, leak or breakdown and you may have problems if you come to sell your house.

There doesn't look to be sufficient room under the filter bowl (red unit under the tigerloop) for routine maintenance and changing the filter element. Here's guessing they didn't use pipe stiffeners in the ends of the copper or test the old fire valve to check it still works either.

 

[Fedup]

You should have a CD11 and CD10 form as well as this, and also a Building Control Completion Certificate from your LABC dept or the guarantee is worthless and your home insurance may not cover you in the event of a fire, leak or breakdown and you may have problems if you come to sell your house.

There doesn't look to be sufficient room under the filter bowl (red unit under the tigerloop) for routine maintenance and changing the filter element. Here's guessing they didn't use pipe stiffeners in the ends of the copper or test the old fire valve to check it still works either.

They are definitely OFTEC registered (croppie). They are meant to be coming back tomorrow, so I will see how it goes. I take it LABC is local authority building control? I will give them a ring as well tomorrow. The whole saga is just a nightmare, as I have scolding hot water in the kitchen, but it's not giving a hot bath, and a shower is out of the question, as they blew them up!
Wish me luck, and many thanks to you all.

 

[SimonG]

To get a hot bath turn the hot tap on and then close it half way so the water stream is about the size of your little finger. Your original system had 22mm pipe to the bath from the cylinder, your new system relies on a 15mm cold water feed, so you can actually run more water through the bath tap than the system will cope with. Something I always explain to my customers and fit a valve on the bath hot feed to restrict the flow.

 

[Dannypipe]

Where is your CD10 and CD11?

What you've photographed is part of the installation documents as supplied with the boiler.

 

[WHPES]

If you don't get any success and are still not happy you could contact OFTEC and if they are registered and OFTEC deems the installation to be unsatisfactory, OFTEC may get it sorted out for you properly.

 

[Fedup]

I don't have a CD10/11. Are they certificates? I was told certificates would take a month to get sent to me.

 

[WHPES]

Yes you should have both of these. Don't pay anything until you have all the paperwork and are satisfied.

The LABC certificate can take up to a month sometimes, but you need the CD10 and CD11 for any warranty etc.

 

[SimonG]

cd/11

 

[Fedup]

Oh no SimonG, I don't have anything like that!

 

[dontknowitall]

I shouldn't really say this but I'm appalled by that installation. I'm not perfect but neither am I lazy and I pay good money to keep myself up to standard.

So, with this in mind, you can phone Worcester (phone number's in the manual.) They are very approachable and might send an engineer. It's in Worcester's interests to ensure a boiler's installed correctly as it's they who pay for the warranty ultimately.

I visited this thread earlier and felt I shouldn't post.

Then on returning I thought, "Flamin' 'eck! I spend hundreds on qualifying, learning, insurance and so on, so why should I put up with cowboys?!!!"