Advice starting new career

[wiggy21]

Hi everyone,

I've wanted to do plumbing for some time now, I got laid off 4 week ago from my current job, and been looking of routes into plumbing, all the apprenticeships have gone at my local college an I dnt think I could afford been an apprentice, I'm 21 with a house to run n a 1.5 year old.

What do people think of the 3 month plumbing courses? I know you can't learn all plumbing in 3 month zn need experience. I've read review saying there scams an qualifications aren't recognised, then others have recommended them an said they've got jobs and even started there own self employed kitchen n bathroom fitting,

I've been looking at MET uk as it's near me, doing master plumbing, solar an renewable energy course.

I want to get started soon as possible really as if a job comes up in my current area of work I'll have to take it and get stuck doing something I don't want to do : (. I earnt 33k last year so it's good money but really interested in plumbing an allways wanted to work for my self

Please help thanks

 

[GQuigley67]

I don't believe you can be good enough to be self employed after 3 months, and you won't get a start either with the "qualifications" you get from these courses.

Qualified guys with years of experience are struggling to get a job at the moment and us self employed guys are also struggling for work making very little money and always being undercut by cowboys.

your not too old for an apprenticeship, I would keep trying even try and get a job as a plumbers mate or a labourer for a plumbing firm alot of plumbers mates go on to being plumbers without even going to college.

With these courses you will be in debt and will not make the money back anytime soon as you can't even get any contract work without recognised qualifications, so you would have to rely on your own customers which believe me is hard and without enough experience you won't really go far.

 

[wiggy21]

What are the qualifications you need to register has a plumber, I've read they changed this year needing a lvl 3 NVQ, I've seen that British gas are wanting plumbers in my area, as I'm a scaffolder currently I've also wanted to do a pv instalation course to fit solar panels.

So your advice would be to become plumbers mate/labourer, how would you go on to be plumber without going to college?

Are all the sort courses rubbish? Any1 trained at new career skills, the course takes 6-12 months then they say they help you find a job or set up as sole trader

Thanks

 

[cr0ft]

I'm writing this not to put you off, but to give you (and the many others who are in your position on here) as much realism as I can do.

Being brutally honest (elbeit you are 10 years younger than I am), you are going to be pushed down the less than ideal route of training through a 'fast-track' course provider and then setting up on your own. My personal opinion is that you won't get an apprenticeship even if you did want one as there are huge incentives for employers to take on 16-17 year olds. I speak from someone who (I think) is now making a success of going down this route. The qualifications don't prepare you in the slightest for working in real houses. If you go down the fast-track path, team up with another plumber in your area who you can pass any work (and I do mean every bit of work) that you're not happy doing yourself. Work with them while they do the work and learn from them. If you team up with a gas fitter you can take on larger jobs once your confidence grows. The real money in the domestic market is in doing bathrooms and central heating systems so these are the areas you will need to learn about if you want to make a decent salary.

To start with you will probably just do tap replacements and repairs. Over time this way, you can safely increase your knowledge without ruining your reputation.

I didn't do this and it's fair to say my business struggled in year 1 before taking off over the last 12 months in particular. My wife is in a very good job and it was quite deflating having to live off her wage during this time. Without it I would never have got the business off the ground, and that was after investing £10k into starting it up.

To give you an idea of wages, in year 1 I would have earned more money working somewhere like McDonalds full-time (not lying here at all). Year 2 I made around £15,000. Half way through year 3, we're looking at around £25,000 if the rest of the year continues as well as the first half has. For this money I (like most other plumbers) am out doing quotes frequently in the evenings and I have a whole load of paperwork to deal with as well. I work in Hampshire which is considered a fairly well-off county and times are still quite hard here. To achieve these results I've had to spend significant time promoting my website so that it ranks number 1 or 2 for all my local area search results. The website brings in around 90% of my new customers that aren't word of mouth referrals. I can't imagine how I would still be in business without it.

I've found that there is no easy way to grow a plumbing business. No advertising has worked well for us to date (even Checkatrade has yielded nothing but poor-quality leads to date). The only thing that works is word-of-mouth referrals.

If I had my time again I would have saved the £5,000 I spent on fast-track courses and taught myself what I needed to know. Building Regulations and Water Regulations are all available on the internet. I'm not saying that anyone can become a plumber at all, but this is a much cheaper way to find out if you have what it takes or not. To be self-employed you don't currently need any qualifications. Much more important is a very good understanding of how plumbing systems work and how to actually do jobs.

Hope some of this helps you, at least it will give you some realistic figures for what plumbers can really expect to earn. Please don't think I'm being overly negative, but I wish I had someone who gave me realistic earnings figures before I made the jump. Would I still have done it? Of course I would have, I love my job and I love running my own business. I never expected to earn mega-bucks though.

 

[SimonG]

Nice post Keiran, I don't think its brutal or negative at all, it's exactly as it is.

People need to realise that things are not as rosy as the training centres make out, they need to do their homework about the state the industry is in and ultimately prepare themselves for a lot of expense, grief and failed expectations.

A saying from Dads Army just sprang into my head, "we're all doooooooooomed!!"

 

[wiggy21]

Yea thanks that's great advice, so did you do fast track plumbing course? And by team up with local plumber do you mean advertise my work, then if job is complicated as the more experienced plumber to help/do the job while I watch/help/learn till I have enough experience, confidence. This seems really good advice, it's a real risk if the business will work, but I'm real determined and it's definately what I wanna do.

Did you get a business start up loan? Or finance it yourself

 

[justlead1]

Hi Wiggy. What was your last job and the skills needed?

 

[cr0ft]

Hi,

I'm maybe not the best example to follow qualifications wise. I have an Mechanical Engineering degree so I'm maybe a bit too critical of plumbing qualifications. I did the C&G 6129 Level 2 course which is just a basic course, doesn't even qualify you as a plumber. So technically I'm not a plumber as I haven't even completed by NVQ 2. I like to think the degree more than makes up for it though

By teaming up with a local plumber I just mean phone around local plumbers and introduce yourself and explain your proposition to them. Most plumbers will happily have you watching them in exchange for paid work in the current climate. I know I would if someone called me!

Other plumbers on here may disagree with me, but if you're going self-employed then I would say self-teach yourself. Read up on everything and practise in your own house first. No one has ever asked me for my qualifications - customers just want to know that you can do the job. I'm about to sit my first professional plumbing qualification tomorrow, my G3 Unvented course/exam. This is 3 years after I started trading. Gas fitting etc can all be sub-contracted out to a decent gas-fitter, lack of qualifications isn't a barrier.

If you want to work for someone else, that is when qualifications become useful, but the number 1 thing employers want is experience.

Effectively I'm saying the fast-track courses aren't really all that useful and save your £5k or whatever it is for some copper pipe, fittings, solder, wire wool, blowtorch and a heat-proof mat.

All the regulations you need to know as a plumber are available online for free.

You'll find initiative is the number 1 thing you need to succeed in this business, in my opinion. Initiative to learn, which is one of the reasons I use this forum - it's a fantastic tool.

Don't just listen to me though, there's loads of plumbers on here with more experience than me. The fast-track route can work, but if I did it again I'd follow a self-taught route personally.

 

[quality]

No disrespect but croft has done ok
You do no need qualifications you need customers and tools and a van and some money in the bank before you even start looking at getting qualifications.
I do not know croft but I am pretty sure he would say the same

 

[cr0ft]

No disrespect but croft has done ok
You do no need qualifications you need customers and tools and a van and some money in the bank before you even start looking at getting qualifications.
I do not know croft but I am pretty sure he would say the same

+1 to this, put much more succinctly than me. Saying things in 1 sentence was never my strong point!

 

[AWheating]

The truth is that all construction trades are currently suffering, many trademen can not find much work, thoses that have work are now working for a wage that is upto 50% of what they may have earnt 3years ago, the more cheap labour that enters the trade the worst it will become. In my opinion a normal person who takes to the trade at an average rate will need 3 to 4 years of experience before they should consider working for themselves/on there own.

I dont want to deflate the spirt of anybody wanting to enter the trade, i think that some of these quick track courses need to be more honest with the way they come across in there advertising. Seen one recently that was 6weeks to become a plumber and start earning upto £50,000 a year.

its always the trades, we never see 6 weeks to become a dentist or teacher. Maybe its because in this country the trades have such a poor rep. i see no difference in value between a good plumber and many other professions.

 

[Hybrid]

Quoted for a job last week. Two new build houses, boilers, underfloor heating in both, 2 bathrooms, 6 ensuites and soil stacks for both.
A guy got it for £2500 the lot.

What a waste of time.
Find work somewhere else, plumbing will break your heart.

 

[wiggy21]

Hi Wiggy. What was your last job and the skills needed?

Been scaffolding for last 2 years, working on power stations, which would come in handy for solar pv installation

 

[cr0ft]

Quoted for a job last week. Two new build houses, boilers, underfloor heating in both, 2 bathrooms, 6 ensuites and soil stacks for both.
A guy got it for £2500 the lot.

What a waste of time.
Find work somewhere else, plumbing will break your heart.

Great stuff!! The guy that won that one would probably be better off sitting on his bum at home for the time it would take him to do all that. I suspect he would earn more money doing that. I very quickly learnt that it's better to work 2 weeks a month for a decent wage than 4 weeks a month for rubbish money.

 

[gaspastemania]

£2500!!!!!!
is that for two houses??
thats just crazy if it is

 

[AWheating]

the large contractor i worked for a while ago was recently on new build making £98 profit per house on full heating, plumbing,gas installs including 2 year warranty. That why so many big comapnies are going under.

 

[SimonG]

The truth is that all construction trades are currently suffering, many trademen can not find much work, thoses that have work are now working for a wage that is upto 50% of what they may have earnt 3years ago, the more cheap labour that enters the trade the worst it will become. In my opinion a normal person who takes to the trade at an average rate will need 3 to 4 years of experience before they should consider working for themselves/on there own.

I dont want to deflate the spirt of anybody wanting to enter the trade, i think that some of these quick track courses need to be more honest with the way they come across in there advertising. Seen one recently that was 6weeks to become a plumber and start earning upto £50,000 a year.

its always the trades, we never see 6 weeks to become a dentist or teacher. Maybe its because in this country the trades have such a poor rep. i see no difference in value between a good plumber and many other professions.

Or how about 6 weeks training and your a surgeon!!!!

 

[AWheating]

I hope not, i have got a hernia operation on monday. If he pulls out a plunger and blow torch ill be running, general anaesthetic or not!

 

[SimonG]

I hope not, i have got a hernia operation on monday. If he pulls out a plunger and blow torch ill be running, general anaesthetic or not!

Hope you've asked for references and didn't take the cheapest estimate!

 

[AWheating]

i just hope i dont catch anything while in hospital. unless its the phone number of a hot nurse

 

[SimonG]

Don't touch the cucumber!

Good luck for monday.

 

[tiling spread]

Been scaffolding for last 2 years, working on power stations, which would come in handy for solar pv installation

you need too get on a rig mate thats were the money is

 

[wiggy21]

Dont wanna work on rigs, dnt wanna be away from home.

 

[Jimbob82]

I've nearly completed the City + Guilds 6129 1 year plumbing course and looking to find a job soonish. I've been working as a foreman (and carpenter) for a small scale construction company. Can anyone advise me on my next move please? Have a 4 month old baby and partner full time mum- hard times
Cheers

 

[Jimbob82]

should add I have 7 years experience in my current trade..

 

[wiggy21]

Isn't the 6129 just the tech cert? U need the NVQ level 2 c&g 6089 to become a plumber.

 

[Jimbob82]

yeah plan was to try and get a position with an experienced plumber and do NVQ onsite

 

[Paulus]

Hi to Wiggy 21,
I did a fast track course 4 years ago and wished I'd saved the money. The books are great but you can buy great bookson the net. The practicals were taught by Plumbers who spent half their time on the phone running their own business and the rest of the time weighing in the copper scrap that we generated.

By far the best thing I did was to write out to loads of plumbers in the area offering to help them for free, labouring, carrying tools, anything to get to watch them and learn. The main thing a working plumber doesn't want is someone who gets in the way. If you do go down this route you will need to take out your own public liability insurance and make sure you mention it your letters.

Hi to Jimbob

Just a bit of advice, please don't take offence but you seem to have hi-jacked Wiggy's thread. Your question will only be seen by people looking at Wiggys thread thus reducing the likelyhood of replies. When we try to answer questions we don't know who we're talking to. It would be better for you both if you started your own thread.

 

[Jimbob82]

Cheers for info Paulus, it was me who was asking
How much did you earn in your first year?

and can you tell me where's best for insurance?

 

[Jimbob82]

sorry mate! Only just joined and still getting to grips. Will take your advice

 

[Paulus]

First year about £5K, second year doubled.

I wouldn't like to say who's best for insurance as quotes vary considerably depending on what other cover you want such as tools, accident etc.

 

[fuzzy]

No disrespect but croft has done ok
You do no need qualifications you need customers and tools and a van and some money in the bank before you even start looking at getting qualifications.
I do not know croft but I am pretty sure he would say the same

How do you suggest getting customers with the relevant skills? Surely we cannot advocate charging clients for skilled work by unskilled labour?

Is it wise t spend £1,000s on van tolls advertising etc without any skills or work?

 

[wiggy21]

Jimbob where are you with ur career now, av you managed to get into the plumbing industry doing the fast track. I dnt see any otherway into plumbing but dnt want to waste alot of money and still av no idea, I'd really like to go into fitting pv solar panels.

 

[fuzzy]

Jimbob where are you with ur career now, av you managed to get into the plumbing industry doing the fast track. I dnt see any otherway into plumbing but dnt want to waste alot of money and still av no idea, I'd really like to go into fitting pv solar panels.

youll need the C&G 2399 qual. to do that you need to be a plumber

why dont you try your local college?

have you read the posts on becoming a plumber on here?

 

[wiggy21]

Local college is full, And fitting Pv solar panels you just need to be mcs accredited for customers to receive the feed in tariff.