Not happy with with new unvented system, although it works fine. Shower pressure issue

[kash]

1.6 bar is not good for unvented. As I said above, around that pressure you need a breaker tank and pumped mains with accumulator.

So his suggestion of 'making up' a breakter tank in loft level 2 is not an unsensible one?

In his defence he has not confirmed if this is what he is going to do but said he will look into it more for me and come up with the best solution based upon the space that I have.
[automerge]1577377492[/automerge]

Ok when he’s here next week get him to fill this out

Pressure static (no outlets open eg just the pressure gauge open)
Pressure dynamic (one additional outlet open)
Flow static (one outlet open)
Dynamic (two outlets open)

Sure - will do.

 

[SJB060685]

A breaker tank is installed on incoming mains to propert, it is pumped thereafter either buy a pump or negative head pump to an accumulator. Both breaker tank and accumulator need to be sized correctly and installed correctly. It's called a breaker tank to isolate house water from mains, preventing any back flow into street mains which could cause problems and harm others. What hes suggesting in the loft could be called a breaker tank but not in this sense. Google boosted mains and look up the above. 1.6 bar is nothing and like Shaun says you need to know static and dynamic pressure and flow. Your incoming mains may not be suited to your requirements and should of been considered when designing the system. Remember a larger incoming pipe will give greater flow rates.

 

[Scott_D]

What size and material is your incoming water main?

 

[kash]

A breaker tank is installed on incoming mains to propert, it is pumped thereafter either buy a pump or negative head pump to an accumulator. Both breaker tank and accumulator need to be sized correctly and installed correctly. It's called a breaker tank to isolate house water from mains, preventing any back flow into street mains which could cause problems and harm others. What hes suggesting in the loft could be called a breaker tank but not in this sense. Google boosted mains and look up the above. 1.6 bar is nothing and like Shaun says you need to know static and dynamic pressure and flow. Your incoming mains may not be suited to your requirements and should of been considered when designing the system. Remember a larger incoming pipe will give greater flow rates.

The I've read the manual and it says "Water supply An adequate and reliable mains water supply is essential to ensure Albion Ultrasteel, Ultrasteel Plus and Aerocyl cylinders deliver the quality and reliable performance you’d expect. We recommend a minimum supply pressure of 1.5 bar, with a flow rate of 25 litres/min. "

I defo don't have a flow rate of 25L per minute.

Just waiting to my guy to come back to me and will hopefully be able to get the readings requested.

Also, just for my understanding. Would we need a break tank AND accumulator, or one or the other?
I think he was saying that we would potentially install the tank on level 2 and pump this TO the unvented cylinder.

 

[SJB060685]

As I said plumbing is not my thing, my knowledge lies elsewhere in the industry. My understanding is you would use either an accumulator or a breaker tank, pump set and accumulator. The break tank is usually installed on the inlet to the property, away from areas of quiet interest due to pump noise and pumped thereafter to the dwelling outlets. You are sizing for both hot and cold pipework distribution, so the breaker tank will need to be sized correctly. This also provides a short fall should your incoming mains be subject to problems ie, work being done in the street. If pressure is ok (in your case borderline) then you could get away with just a suitably sized accumulator. With the pump set you are solely relying on it to provide the pressure and flow to the property, with the accumulator making use of the energy provided.
As I and others have said above, your incoming supply should have been the first thing to check when considering this type of system, quite often and what seems to be your case is the incoming mains to house will not be sufficient and upgrading is necessary, the bigger the supply line the better, pressure will be whatever it is by the provider but your flow rates will be much greater .

 

[kash]

As I said plumbing is not my thing, my knowledge lies elsewhere in the industry. My understanding is you would use either an accumulator or a breaker tank, pump set and accumulator. The break tank is usually installed on the inlet to the property, away from areas of quiet interest due to pump noise and pumped thereafter to the dwelling outlets. You are sizing for both hot and cold pipework distribution, so the breaker tank will need to be sized correctly. This also provides a short fall should your incoming mains be subject to problems ie, work being done in the street. If pressure is ok (in your case borderline) then you could get away with just a suitably sized accumulator. With the pump set you are solely relying on it to provide the pressure and flow to the property, with the accumulator making use of the energy provided.
As I and others have said above, your incoming supply should have been the first thing to check when considering this type of system, quite often and what seems to be your case is the incoming mains to house will not be sufficient and upgrading is necessary, the bigger the supply line the better, pressure will be whatever it is by the provider but your flow rates will be much greater .

I really appreciate all the advice you and eveyone else has given to do date. I'm no expert hence the reason I come on such forums. I like to try and understand as much as I can from non bias sources and not just rely on what 1 tradesman tells me.

In this instance, its obviously too late to go back - obviously these things should have been checked first. Whilst he did show me the flow rate and pressure, i never noted it down and I was told it was decent. However, looking at the manaul now I can see for myself that it probably isn't sufficient for the setup I now have; thus said, now need to find the best solution.

I feel like it's going to be a case of installing these tanks in the loft at the moment. Just hope it's not going to cost an arm and a leg to restore a decent shower and simultanious output in the house.

 

[SJB060685]

You did the right thing coming on this site, there is literally decades of experience between the users. Unfortunately like you said you're past the point of no return. Unfortunately again you have a couple choices, either pay lots more to upgrade incoming mains, add booster pumps, breaker tank and accumulator etc or pay to have an open vented system re installed with same layout as before to achieve the shower you desire, either way is likely to cost a fair amount. Unvented HW supply is a God send but as you've learnt the hard way it needs to be done properly and it appears your installer might not be as well informed as he suggests

 

[kash]

So this what he sent me in terms of the solution, based upon the space I have available (other than ripping out the new unvented tank)

I’ll ask him to take the pressure and flow readings before though.
..........
Installation of 3 x 25gallon tank in small loft to include supply of materials and tanks.

The tanks will be mains supplied and will give cold supply to the new unvented hot water cylinder.

These tanks will also supply cold feed to shower in ensuite and shower in main bathroom (which will be pumped by double pump allready on site, installed in small loft).

hot water will be pumped everywhere in the house by the other single pump installed in big loft (both pumps already on site and available from previous set up)

£730
......

 

[ShaunCorbs]

them pumps arnt suitable for boosting a whole house / what hes intending them for

 

[SJB060685]

Correct me if I'm wrong but is he suggesting piping the cold feed to unvented cylinder from these proposed new storage tanks in the loft?