Not happy with with new unvented system, although it works fine. Shower pressure issue

[ShaunCorbs]

Non of them are correct let’s see what he says

also need them figures ?

 

[kash]

Non of them are correct let’s see what he says

he's just come back to me suggesting that this set up will be the one he intends to use.

What yould your suggestion be if none of them are correct?
updated diagram below.

I have looked at the Grundfos Scala2 pump you sent the link to. If I do get this, would it go BEFORE the unvented cylinder and FROM the water talnk in the loft.

Shaun - any chance of a quick chat?
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Non of them are correct let’s see what he says

also need them figures ?

I'll get those figures thursday.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

You can’t pump from the outlet of the unvented cylinder (this would concern me he thinks he can do this) you sure he’s g3 registered?

would go water tanks
Pump
Cold supply to the Unvented cylinder
Cold Balanced supply to the bathrooms

 

[SJB060685]

You can’t pump from the outlet of the unvented cylinder (this would concern me he thinks he can do this) you sure he’s g3 registered?

would go water tanks
Pump
Cold supply to the Unvented cylinder
Cold Balanced supply to the bathrooms

I think his plumber is suggesting using the unvented cylinder as vented now Shaun!?

 

[kash]

You can’t pump from the outlet of the unvented cylinder (this would concern me he thinks he can do this) you sure he’s g3 registered?

would go water tanks
Pump
Cold supply to the Unvented cylinder
Cold Balanced supply to the bathrooms

Really appreciate the feedback and help - I don't want to waste any more money and time.

I'm going to show this thread to him later.

Someone actually came out to check his work and a NAPIT certificate was issued?

Is the now attached what your suggesting based upon your last comment (i ask as not sure what the 'balanced' cold bit refers to)

These are the tanks he is supplying: Polytank Cold Water Tank 25gallon (UK) 690 x 515 x 520mm - https://www.NoLinkingToThis/p/polytank-cold-water-tank-25gallon-uk-690-x-515-x-520mm/10500

The file can be edited from think link via draw.io if anyone wishes to edit?

Google Drive: Sign-in

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Will draw something up later

 

[kash]

Will draw something up later

Thank you. He's supposed to be coming to do the work thursday so trying to get the info I need before then to ensure we have the best set up/solution.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

like this would be the only way i would do it

need to know your supply so can work out if the tanks are enough eg 70l

 

[SJB060685]

So the pump would go on cold inlet to cylinder and pump through it to HW outlets Shaun?

 

[kash]

like this would be the only way i would do it

need to know your supply so can work out if the tanks are enough eg 70l

Thanks a million.

I think that all makes sense to me- apart from the unvented control block. What is that/how does it it work? Is this another unit device- rough cost?

And I see now shower pumps here- is there any way I could use this instead of the Grundfos pump as it’s at least another £400 ontop or the £700 he’s quoted me to do this week work- ontop of the £16-700 ive already paid.

Will show this to my guy and see what he thinks.

Can’t thank you enough for your input
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like this would be the only way i would do it

need to know your supply so can work out if the tanks are enough eg 70l

Also, my unvented tank is 300L So think the 3 25gallon tanks = 340ish L? Should be enough?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

So the pump would go on cold inlet to cylinder and pump through it to HW outlets Shaun?

yes and being fed via the tanks so its boosted upto what every you set the pumps at then reduced down at the control block
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Thanks a million.

I think that all makes sense to me- apart from the unvented control block. What is that/how does it it work? Is this another unit device- rough cost?

And I see now shower pumps here- is there any way I could use this instead of the Grundfos pump as it’s at least another £400 ontop or the £700 he’s quoted me to do this week work- ontop of the £16-700 ive already paid.

Will show this to my guy and see what he thinks.

Can’t thank you enough for your input
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Also, my unvented tank is 300L So think the 3 25gallon tanks = 340ish L? Should be enough?

sorry thought your tanks were in Litres should be enough but depends on your mains flow rate dynamic

also the control block he should know what this is and its already fitted

tbh you shouldnt have to pay anything as its his mistake not checking things first and good enough

 

[kash]

yes and being fed via the tanks so its boosted upto what every you set the pumps at then reduced down at the control block
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sorry thought your tanks were in Litres should be enough but depends on your mains flow rate dynamic

also the control block he should know what this is and its already fitted

tbh you shouldnt have to pay anything as its his mistake not checking things first and good enough

Whilst I agree with you, I don’t know of any trades person that I’ve come across yet that would swallow that much material and labour (relative to be size of the job). He’s already been paid for the job so I can’t even challenge him with payment. He did agree to charge me minimum labour for this change though. Getting someone new in would also cost me and then there’s finding someone willing enough with the knowledge.

If you’re able to clarify about the use of the shower pump I think this should be enough info to go back to him with? Hopefully I can use one of my existing pumps if I can.

Am I right in understanding that with the setup you’ve proposed, the pressure at the showers would now just be at whatever the output of the chosen pump is? I was very happy with the previous setup and the output at the showers which came straight from the pump (just wondered if I’d still need the shower pumps with your set up)

He’s now booked the job in for Monday as he he didn’t want to commit to 1 day on Thursday and I can’t do Friday or this weekend.
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I guess also what I'm trying to understand is, what is the difference between a shower pump and the pumps you've recommended.
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OK. So i've spoken with the plumber.

@ShaunCorbs he agrees that your set up whilst better and ideal, unfortunatly won't work in my situation, as apparenty it means more piping configuration changes and breaking a wall and some ceilings (as I have the 1st floor loft where there current cylinder is, and the 2nd floor loft where the water tanks would be). Now there is no way i'm going to start ripping things open and doing all of that, as he said he could do it, but the additional labour and hardware costs would be substantially more. And the house has just been finished and decorated. Again, i'm just taking his word on this.

He became slightly frustrated and said that he could easily walk away from the job, but he's confident that the pressure and flow rates were adequate at the mains before he took on the job and he will show me. He's said he's fairly certain that my water softer is responsible for much of the drop in flow/pressure too but we will test this next week. He said if the flow rate was more than 15L at the mains, then it's just a case of me not being happy as I was used to the previous shower pump set up.

I asked about pumping out of an unvented cylinder - he said that effectivly the new unvented cylinder would become vented so this wouldnt be a problem. So I dont think I have any choice but to go with his proposed solution.

On another note, if the tank is no longer 'unvented', would it still need the annual servicing? I've just signed up to an annal service plan with kingspan for the warranty purposes, so would this be a waste of money? They are supposed to be coming on friday to inspect in insulation. Do you think it's worth postponing this until AFTER he has done all the changes or just cancel it all together?

 

[John.g]

Is su1-revised his final proposal?, it may be just the way he has drawn it but its showing two (double) booster pumps in series to shower1 and shower2, is this correct?.

 

[EvilDrPorkChop]

Basically what he's proposing is incorrect and it would need to be done the way @ShaunCorbs is suggesting if you wanted to go down that route.

I can't believe your even proceeding with all of this before fully assessing the situation. You've not got any static/dynamic water pressure figures, pipe sizing from your water main to the cylinder combination valve or flow rates. It could be even something as simple as the filter on the shower or combination valve is blocked (Which has happened before) All these things are relatively simple to check.

In relation to Kingspan - they'll just invalidate your warranty once your plumber has had a butcher at what he's proposing! The cylinder won't become just a 'vented' cylinder because he's stuck a breaker tank on it.

 

[kash]

No, I 've just realised this is a mistake on my behlaf on the way i've drawn it. there are NOT two double pumps in series.

The revised final proposal that his is suggesting (with my error corrected) is now attached
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Basically what he's proposing is incorrect and it would need to be done the way @ShaunCorbs is suggesting if you wanted to go down that route.

I can't believe your even proceeding with all of this before fully assessing the situation. You've not got any static/dynamic water pressure figures, pipe sizing from your water main to the cylinder combination valve or flow rates. It could be even something as simple as the filter on the shower or combination valve is blocked (Which has happened before) All these things are relatively simple to check.

In relation to Kingspan - they'll just invalidate your warranty once your plumber has had a butcher at what he's proposing! The cylinder won't become just a 'vented' cylinder because he's stuck a breaker tank on it.

The filters have all been checked and they are clear. It's defo nothing being blocked.
I can measure flow rates but not the pressures and I dont have the tools or knowhow. I will ge these as soon as I can.

I'm going to let him digest this thread and proposal. I'm hoping there's a way we can make shauns proposal work somehow.
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OK UPDATE

We've come up with a way to actually put the x3 tanks that were going to go in the 2nd floor loft into the 1st floor loft. This means we can actually just put in 1 bigger tank as opposed to 3 smaller tanks.

This way we can actually do it properly and maintain the vented system.

He's going to re-spec up and provide me an updated quote later.
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SCALA2

SCALA2 is an integrated, self-priming, compact water booster pump. It is designed for perfect pressure inside the home. It’s quiet, easy to install, and maintains consistent pressure in all taps at all times.

uk.grundfos.com

ESYBOX MINI 3 | DAB Pumps

Esybox Mini 3 has a different appearance than any other booster set and is small and completely integrated. Once you install and use it, you realize that the real difference is in the comfort and performance. Esybox Mini 3 uses the most advanced DAB technologies to create constant pressure...

www.dabpumps.com

thats rated for constant use

Hi @ShaunCorbs - Are there any other recommendedations for a pump?

Based on what i'm seeing, we can use the shower pump right?
Are there differences with the booster pumps with a tank? Is the Grundfoss one you listed the same thing?