Learning Lead wiping

[Phil]

I know its illeagle and everything but I just think its something I should be able to do, an old customer I do regular work for said he would show me if I had all the gear.

Am I right you need:

Moleskin (real moleskin)?
Tallow (animal fat?)
Clamps
Blowlamp from floor standing bottle

Plus years of experience before I get even near the perfectly wiped joints of years ago.

 

[tackleburger]

I pieced a lead main in with a short length of 28mm copper two wipes I used 1 piece of stick solder, 1/2 tub of laco and some carboard along with a superfire 2. I won't tell you what was used to freeze the passing main but the guy worked in a university lab!!

 

[tamz]

If you want to do it right you need to smudge around the joints as well.

You also need a shavehook and a rasp and a turnpin if you want to make a branch.Some used a laddle too.

And someone to show you how. The trick is to do it quickly. The longer you play with it the harder it gets.

 

[Spudhater]

Wiped a joint 23years ago never touched it again, why would you want to!!!

plenty of compression fittings out there...

 

[Phil]

Thanks for advice, I will keep practicing the soldering method first and get that right, thats when you solder copper to lead.

 

[tackleburger]

I did use a turnpin as well. It is handy to be able to do it but most of the time a connector can be purchased and it is often quicker. This is the only time I do it emergency repairs and I couldn't get a leadlock anywhere to fit the pipe. I have done this twice in the last two or three years. But on you belly arms down a hole I'd much rather put a leadlock on.

 

[Bernie2]

Hmm!

We used lead every day in the early sixties. I must admit I regard wiping/sweating a joint the same as I do doing end feeds. We did it that often. But its not as easy to learn as it looks, you can show how to prepare a standard joint in a relatively short time.
I must admit I never used the ladle but many of the lads I worked with where taught how too.

The thing is, you don't sweat copper directly into lead, that is usually a no no. They are to far apart on the electrolytic scale and cause problems to each other. You usually use a brass, copper to lead adaptor.

I found the big problems where getting the water out of pipes and the positions some joints where in.

Probably the easiest joint to start with although it may look the hardest is the branch joint. You can get augers for drilling the hole and you need a bent pin to tamp out the sides and bend the pipe.
You also need a rasp to chamfer the branch pipe end going into the main supply pipe. A shavehook to clean the pipe, block black to limit solder spread area. Plenty of tallow, wiping cloth, blowlamp, lighter, clamps. Don't forget fire proof mat, bucket of water ready as well. Look around for anything that may catch fire and remove it.

Tin brass or gunmetal adaptor assemble then have a go. Its good fun.

 

[turnpin]

Hello Phil some good advise posted here as usual .. the guy who taught me gave me some good advise as well he used to say so long as the pipe is clean and dry you will always get a good joint out in the real world this is not always easy to obtain especialy the dry bit but if this method were still in use as much as it was before the invention of mechanical joints you learn tricks to get round this.The first joint I learned to wipe was called a taft joint the lead pipe was cut and a turnpin [where have I seen that name before] was then used to bell out the end of the pipe a shave hook was then used to clean inside and outside of the lead pipe a brass cap and liner was then tinned so as to allow the stick solder to stick more easily next the cap and liner were placed in the mouth of the pipe and held in position with a burlock tool heat was applied and the stick lead was was built up and when sufficient the moleskin dipped in plenty of tallow was used to wipe the joint I hope this has been of some help lead is toxic so make sure you use barrier cream before you start and clean your hands thoroughly after regards turnpin

 

[REDSAW]

I pieced a lead main in with a short length of 28mm copper two wipes I used 1 piece of stick solder, 1/2 tub of laco and some carboard along with a superfire 2. I won't tell you what was used to freeze the passing main but the guy worked in a university lab!!

a taffy joint.

 

[tamz]

If you did the joints with the water passing in the morning, you went hungry at piece (dinner) time. Bernie will know what i mean.

To do a branch joint you need one of these for marking out

.
Don't know if this will work!? It didn't! but it was a picture of a pipe marking guage. If i remember tomorrow i'll post a picture up.

It is called a guage. They came in various sizes to suit the pipe size. It was sat across the centre of the branch hole and a compass or caliper used to scribe a line on the sides of the pipe and the hole used gave the height to be cleaned on the branch pipe to give a uniform joint.

You also need a bending bolt which is basically a steel or iron offset, to open up the joint.

When i was an apprentice my journeyman used to say "look at his cloth and you will know how good he is"

Smudge is used to prevent the solder sticking where you don't want it. It is basically lampblack (fine soot) mixed with chalk and some beer to make a kind of black paint. Mark and clean the lead and paint a band of smudge around.

This is a dying part of the trade as there is no real need to do it anymore. Like everything else nowadays plumbing requires very little actual skills, only a bit knowledge
I can still do passable joints which to the uneducated would look great but i know they are not because i worked with guys who could do works of art. Even worked with one old guy who wiped off his joints with his silk tie (yes he wore a tie to work).

Btw use grade D solder. It has a lower melting point

 

[tackleburger]

We went back and replaced the main a week or so later. To put you in the picture it was 1400 on a Friday and on the Sunday the property was to be occupied by a golfer competing in the Open so we had to get something sorted out. The toby was passing sod's law on a Friday afternoon. Fortunately for us an occupant in the building (the main fed three flats) worked at the university. He came down with a big white bucket of liquid nitrogen wrapped a split 2litre fizzy drink bottle round the pipe filled it with cotton wool and hey presto we had an instant ice plug. So we cut out the split and dod a double taft joint to get the system up and running. It looked great even if I say so myself.

 

[Phil]

How interesting......

The material that you fed into the joint then, was it lead or solder?

Edit: for general lead wiping I mean.

 

[tackleburger]

It was the stick solder leaded stuff.

 

[Phil]

This stuff?

F0152-1 250g Approx Tinmans single stick solder

Dosn't say whether its leaded or not.

 

[justlead1]

Hi. This may add a bit of interest (a walk down memory lane for some)

[/IMG]
This link may be a walk down memory lane for some?

 

[Puddle]

Ah the good old days,were lead ruled

Not much health and safety in these foundries producing the lead pipe just after the turn of the century

All allowing the master plumber to carry out his trade

Wonder what he would of done if passed a bit of plastic and a few push fit fittings

 

[WaterTight]

Wonder what he would of done if passed a bit of plastic and a few push fit fittings

He would have said, "well that sure makes life a lot easier. what a brilliant invention. on the other hand, i'm ruined!"

 

[kirkgas]

If you did the joints with the water passing in the morning, you went hungry at piece (dinner) time. Bernie will know what i mean.


how come it was always the apprentices piece who took a hit for the team

 

[Phil]

I wonder what it will be like in another 100 years?

will they be saying "The guys at the turn of the century had it tuff, they had to pysically push the plastic joints together, it was a real skill"

 

[stevetheplumber]

i a hundred years every house will be made by robots in a factory and will be clipped together on site by illegal imigrants from the planet zog

 

[Phil]

I think we're half way there at the moment with things like bathroom pods.

 

[ecowarm]

I worked in a Stately Home a few years back and framed on the wall in a Toilet was an invoice from the 1700's for " For servicing His Lordships cock" from a London plumbing company. I think the wording would be different nowadays.

Eco

 

[tamz]

how come it was always the apprentices piece who took a hit for the team

:d:d:d