Is it really cheaper for me to have central heating on all day than a gas fire?

[hollyoaks777]

Is it really cheaper for me to have central heating on than a gas fire? My fire is an open coal effect gas fire I can't find mine as it's 14year old. I just moved house last year and brought my Marble fireplace and gas fire with me. I also want to know if I get a new Boiler would my bills be cheaper. I don't know how old my boiler is as it's a council property and it was there when I moved in.

But plumber checked with his supplier and says he has been selling spare parts for it for 10 years. It's a SIME
code: 8104011
Model: Ecomfort plus 30 HE
GC No 47-283-14

I have an extra bedroom in my property and I am downstairs now but the radiator is at frost setting in back bedroom my gas bill is now £61 a month whereas I was only £39 at my old property and I used the central heating a lot more in my old property than this one. I have asked about my relations My sister is only £60 a month and is in a 4 bedroom house of her own up and downstairs 2 adults and 2 kids and she is only £60 a month, my cousin is in a 3 bedroom house up and downstairs and is only £46 a month for 2 adults and a kid. I am in a 2 bedroom 4 in a block house groundfloor with 2 bedrooms of which I don't use the radiator in the back bedroom and I am £61 a month and I am on my own I can't afford to heat the house the way I want to. And I am in debt to the supplier.

And concil have told me I am not getting a new boiler as it has spare parts for it. and it's burning at 29.52Kw and is only a 30Kw boiler. So they told me not to use my gas fire turn all radiators down to 2 apart from Living Room keep it at full. Would a new boiler make any difference

 

[Chalked]

It's all to fo with efficiency.
York gas boiler may be 85% efficient, so 15p of every £ is wasted.
Your fire is likely to be 60%, do 40p goes up your chimney.

 

[hollyoaks777]

It's all to fo with efficiency.
York gas boiler may be 85% efficient, so 15p of every £ is wasted.
Your fire is likely to be 60%, do 40p goes up your chimney.

That's quite a lot to me. For someone like me who hasn't got a clue about heating systems is that efficent enough? The plumer I got in myself did say new radiators might help as mine are around 25 years old would they? I am sure it was alloy radiators he said would help.

 

[Riley]

It's all relative. You might spend a fair whack on getting a newer more efficient boiler some ERP models are well into the 90%s efficiency wise however you may also improve the situation with controls like a thermostat and a programmer or maybe properly insulating the property if it's not already? Sounds like you currently have a band B boiler possibly. These can no longer be fitted as they aren't efficient enough. Hope this helps

 

[hollyoaks777]

Thank you. I am just my radiators at 2 and see how mu much that helps. The plumber checked it out with the company that sells spare parts for it they said it was A rated. I am not so sure Though as My bills are too high.

 

[jtsplumbing]

Why are you concerning your self with the cost of boiler parts & the price of new boilers ?? it's a council owned property, anything go's wrong with it's down to the council to put it right, I'm sure they would love you to spend out a couple of thousand pounds installing new equipment, but you wont get this money back, What is the insulation like in the house ? the council get this done for free, Open flame effect gas fires are not the most efficient , think about getting a outset gas fire that is behind glass , some of these are over 80% efficient .

 

[hollyoaks777]

Why are you concerning your self with the cost of boiler parts & the price of new boilers ?? it's a council owned property, anything go's wrong with it's down to the council to put it right, I'm sure they would love you to spend out a couple of thousand pounds installing new equipment, but you wont get this money back, What is the insulation like in the house ? the council get this done for free, Open flame effect gas fires are not the most efficient , think about getting a outset gas fire that is behind glass , some of these are over 80% efficient .

It's because they said I am not gettimg one off them. But if it made a big difference I would get my MP involved. The cavity wall insulation is like white loft insulation without the glass is the best I can descirbe it. I didn't think my bills would be much different. Headache! Yes council got it done free. That's not as good as my old house either. it was like silicone. It came throgh my extractor fan and stopped it working, that's how I know that. I am just enqiring to see if a new boiler would bring my bills down a good bit. Then I would be straight on the phone to my MP. According to Chalk if I am correct I am losing £9 a month

 

[jtsplumbing]

Could be other factors causing a large heat loss, Doors / Windows etc. A lot of older property's in this area are having major upgrades , Heating, insulation, and in most cases the whole of the outside is covered in insulation, I know people that have had this done & now hardly have the heating on, I don't know what difference your MP will make ! they will just say its down to cut backs, Unless you have some sort of illness or are disabled you wont stand much chance of any help, even they don't stand much chance, in most cases peoples benefits are being cut , You'll Proberly have to put on a extra jumper and use a hot water bottle, No good going to sit in the Library most of them have been shut !!!

 

[hollyoaks777]

Could be other factors causing a large heat loss, Doors / Windows etc. A lot of older property's in this area are having major upgrades , Heating, insulation, and in most cases the whole of the outside is covered in insulation, I know people that have had this done & now hardly have the heating on, I don't know what difference your MP will make ! they will just say its down to cut backs, Unless you have some sort of illness or are disabled you wont stand much chance of any help, even they don't stand much chance, in most cases peoples benefits are being cut , You'll Proberly have to put on a extra jumper and use a hot water bottle, No good going to sit in the Library most of them have been shut !!!

Did the people you know get that done with the council? I have multiple illnesses. That's why I need the heat but I can't afford it. What is that type of insulation your talking about? Is it insulation board with plasterboard attatched to it? If it wasn't the council how much did it cost them? Doors and windows just got renewed not long ago jts.

 

[jtsplumbing]

What they have done here costs thousands it was a major housing upgrade in this & I understand other parts of the country, to be honest you need to try Social services , CAB etc. but to be quite honest I don't think you will have much luck with any of them, you will just be fobbed of with its due to budget cuts, Believe that government is stopping the Heating allowance after this year, Government has no money left after Giving Billons to the EU and aid to almost every other country on the planet once your over a certain age in this country you are just a burden Think it was something that Scrooge quoted in a Christmas carol about the old and sick and reducing the population if they cant support themselves (Just let them die)

 

[hollyoaks777]

What they have done here costs thousands it was a major housing upgrade in this & I understand other parts of the country, to be honest you need to try Social services , CAB etc. but to be quite honest I don't think you will have much luck with any of them, you will just be fobbed of with its due to budget cuts, Believe that government is stopping the Heating allowance after this year, Government has no money left after Giving Billons to the EU and aid to almost every other country on the planet once your over a certain age in this country you are just a burden Think it was something that Scrooge quoted in a Christmas carol about the old and sick and reducing the population if they cant support themselves (Just let them die)

I didn't know that. But we had our chance and blew it!!! What is CAB? That man would do away with the NHS tommorow if he could. He's doing it the fly way so it will collapse with the cuts. So back to my question is it worth trying to get a new boiler or will it not make any difference to my bills?

 

[Riley]

A new boiler might help but the actual saving money side of things is far more involved. I would be surprised if a new boiler didn't help your costs on a monthly basis but it could just be masking another problem for example double glazing, insulation, loft insulation, cavity wall insulation, heating controls such as timers TRVs. A lot of people just gauge the efficiency of their boiler by how hot the house Is but ignore how much energy is just going straight out the window

 

[jtsplumbing]

Ask the council when they intend to upgrade the property, surprised the boiler has lasted 10 years simie boilers not the best, if you have the sort of luck that most people have , you would pay out for a boiler next week , then get a letter form council saying they are replacing all the old boilers over 10 years, (CAB = Citizens advise bureau ) better to keep your money in the bank earning a little interest and paying that little extra on the gas bill, Get gas supplier to check if meter is faulty ! are you on a Key Meter or quarterly meter ? Don't for get we are into the winter Mths now, so bills will be higher, Have a word with your gas supplier to see if your on the best tariff (Rate) Did you have a combi boiler at your last house ? If you work out what your paying in extra gas (Approx £20) its going to take you somewhere around 8 to 10 years to spend on extra gas what it will cost to replace the boiler and you will still have to pay for gas !! KEEP YOUR MONEY IN THE BANK !!!!

 

[hollyoaks777]

A new boiler might help but the actual saving money side of things is far more involved. I would be surprised if a new boiler didn't help your costs on a monthly basis but it could just be masking another problem for example double glazing, insulation, loft insulation, cavity wall insulation, heating controls such as timers TRVs. A lot of people just gauge the efficiency of their boiler by how hot the house Is but ignore how much energy is just going straight out the window

Have you amy idea how much a new boiler would save me a month. I have cavity wall insulation and new double glazing windows and pvc doors,

 

[Riley]

As I think someone mentioned earlier. At a guess we would say your current boiler is 85% efficient. Some of the new boilers can be as high as 95 or 96% efficient so I guess you could look at it with your current boiler 15p in the pound goes out the window. you have to note however that this is only very very rough as there are multiple other things that can affect this. I think you are wanting one of us to say you need a new boiler but if the one you have is working even if it is less efficient I certainly wouldn't say in my professional opinion that one should be provided. I am no expert in council housing however so do not know if they have any obligation to provide you with a certain efficiency boiler my suspicion would be that they don't

 

[jtsplumbing]

Ok you are spending £61 per Mth on gas boiler is about 85% efficient

New boiler is on average 95% efficient this will save about 10% on gas about £6.00 per Mth

Divide this saving by the cost of a knew boiler ! approx. in round numbers depending what has to be done & make of boiler etc.
£1500 to £2000
You would be saving around £72.00 per year, divide this by the cost of new boiler and it will take you between 20 & 30 years to get the cost of the boiler back on what you save on gas & you will still be paying about £55.00 per Mth for gas

YOU ARE WASTEING YOUR MONEY PAYING OUT FOR A NEW BOILER ONLY SAVEING £6.00 Mth £1.50 per week

AS B4 CHECK THAT YOUR ON THE RIGHT TARRIF OR CHANGE SUPPLIER

 

[doitmyself]

Your Sime boiler is A rated, which is the best you can get. Unless it has never been serviced, it should still be just as efficient. So it would be a waste of money changing the boiler.

There must be some other reason why your bills are high.

Do you have a timer and room thermostat (or programmable thermostat)? If so, what are the settings?

Setting the TRV to 2 in unused rooms may help - provided you keep the doors closed. But heat will still pass through the walls and floors from the heated rooms into the unused rooms.

 

[hollyoaks777]

Your Sime boiler is A rated, which is the best you can get. Unless it has never been serviced, it should still be just as efficient. So it would be a waste of money changing the boiler.

There must be some other reason why your bills are high.

Do you have a timer and room thermostat (or programmable thermostat)? If so, what are the settings?

Setting the TRV to 2 in unused rooms may help - provided you keep the doors closed. But heat will still pass through the walls and floors from the heated rooms into the unused rooms.

sorry I fell asleep I thimk I will keep it it has Danfoss wireless heatimg cntrol amd I turn it on and Turn it on and off as it comes on ay 20 degrees and until you pressed up it stayed off. Now when I turn it on it comes on at 20 and also strts the heating on.

 

[Roger Welton]

Best way to cut bills is to have it on less, 6 hours a day instead of 12 will halve (roughly) your bill.

If you have the house heated 24-7 then £2 a day doesnt sound too bad to me!

 

[hollyoaks777]

Best way to cut bills is to have it on less, 6 hours a day instead of 12 will halve (roughly) your bill.

If you have the house heated 24-7 then £2 a day doesnt sound too bad to me!

Yes that would be great but unfortunately that's only for 3 hours maximum a day. That question is hypothetical. As I do want it on all day. But I can't afford it and I am in debt to my supplier for maximum of 3 hours a day. Because I set up a direct debit for the same as my old house. Thinking it would be about the same or a bit more. But not this much more.

 

[SimonG]

You can take boiler efficiencies with a pinch of salt.

Hear it all the time with oil boilers. Custs complaining that the swapped a 78% efficient boiler for a new one running at supposed 95% or higher. Straight away they think I'm going to use 17% less oil, it's gonads. Figures in reality are completely different.

If your gas bill is too high then use it less. Insulate, keep one room warm, use the central heating rather than the fire etc.

 

[Rickster123]

Pop an extra jumper on..

 

[hollyoaks777]

Pop an extra jumper on..

Funny you say that I am just buying thermal underwear mate

 

[village idiot]

Funny you say that I am just buying thermal underwear mate

This is a family forum hollyoaks, please keep your private life private

 

[SimonG]

Anyway, it was 20 degrees this afternoon and that's in the great cold north.

 

[village idiot]

This is a family forum hollyoaks, please keep your private life private

That post was just banter hollyoaks, so don't start worrying about it. Besides, nobody ever takes me seriously, you shouldn't either

 

[hollyoaks777]

That post was just banter hollyoaks, so don't start worrying about it. Besides, nobody ever takes me seriously, you shouldn't either

Thank you mate I thought you were serious.

 

[Worcester]

This is really simple, you need to speak to social services and your housing supplier, explain your problems and get them to offer solutions.

 

[hollyoaks777]

This is really simple, you need to speak to social services and your housing supplier, explain your problems and get them to offer solutions.

I called for help today off them. I was told can't help me yet they are putting new boilers in just round the corner. I also called about the flue the other day as dust is coming in as the plastic flap is not tight against inside wall. I asked him if he could make one go walkies and I would pay him he said they are all ordered as needed and have electronic tags on them. He told me to turn all the heaters down to 2 except the living room. I can't understand why it's so much more. I spoke to a plumber today he told me to ask for new radiators as the one's I have are 25 years old and burn more gas than the new radiators. I am trying to get all the information I can before I call my MP. So if you can help me out with if I new boiler would save me much money. As I calculated I am losing 10p for every £1 I am losing £6. And my fire is literally burning money. According to chalk if I remember correctly I am losing 40p for every £1 for my gas fire. So I have been told by everyone I am cheaper using my central heating than the fire even though I am only in the living room. I thought I was saving money by not using the central heating as it's heating every room instead of just the one room I am in.

 

[Allgoode]

On a different note are you on a pre-payment meter.
If you are and owe the gas company money or potentially the previous tenant owed money to the gas supplier a percentage of each £ that you put on the meter will go off to paying that debt thus you might only be using a small amount of gas but paying back a heftier chunk of debt.
Also if I am barking up the wrong tree with the above comments gas usage is relative, if you have the temp right up then you will use more gas or if you have all the rads on low the boiler may be cycling which is inefficient.
Finally if you have moved in and brought your old marble fire surround and own gas fire, was the fire correctly fitted for you by a gas safe registered engineer and gas rated, etc.
Failing that the property may be poorly insulated/drafty which is causing a significant heat loss.
Hope this helps,
Allgoode

 

[Allgoode]

I am in a 2 bedroom 4 in a block house groundfloor with 2 bedrooms of which I don't use the radiator in the back bedroom and I am £61 a month and I am on my own I can't afford to heat the house the way I want to. And I am in debt to the supplier.

This may be the main issue. Sounds like the gas supply company are taking a fair chunk of money for debt repayment

 

[Worcester]

The OP is in debt because her heating bills are higher now than at her previuos property, and she didn't increase here direct debit.

My advice is: STOP LOOKING FOR THE SOLUTION YOURSELF, a new boiler may well not be the answer, as far as the Housing provider is concerned, they will consider your request as just noise.

You need social services to come round and assess your needs, if there are problems with your heating system / you can't afford it, then they can apply far more pressure on your housing provider than you can - they can actually enforce certain changes / enhancements, and may be able to help with the outstanidng amounts to the energy provider - in certain circumstances they can get it written off.

 

[hollyoaks777]

On a different note are you on a pre-payment meter.
If you are and owe the gas company money or potentially the previous tenant owed money to the gas supplier a percentage of each £ that you put on the meter will go off to paying that debt thus you might only be using a small amount of gas but paying back a heftier chunk of debt.
Also if I am barking up the wrong tree with the above comments gas usage is relative, if you have the temp right up then you will use more gas or if you have all the rads on low the boiler may be cycling which is inefficient.
Finally if you have moved in and brought your old marble fire surround and own gas fire, was the fire correctly fitted for you by a gas safe registered engineer and gas rated, etc.
Failing that the property may be poorly insulated/drafty which is causing a significant heat loss.
Hope this helps,
Allgoode

I just moved in last year I brought my marble fireplace and fire with me as I lost thousands of pounds by leaving my white high gloss kitchen I bought when I was working oh and by the way when I viewed the property I was then told by letter that is the day you moved in. you want to have seen it and I had to pay for the 2 properties! When I moved in it was prepayment metres and it was Scottish Power I they were with which I wouldn't advise anyone to go with. Took me months to get away from them said their systems were down etc. Told me Scottish Hydro hadn't sent them anything and they had sent them everything anyway it's a long story and over 13 hours on the phone to them.

But the people before me did oew them and everyone else thousands. I had to call up and tell all the companies they were dead as the sherrif officers were coming. But I got set to zero and because of my health conditions I got standard metres fitted for free. I often wonder if they set the meter up to get the money back.

Yes the fire was fitted correctly with corgi registered gas fitter. the chimney wasn't swept because of the time scale and I keep getting bits of coalcoming out the base of the fire I am looking at some now. And a wee hint to anyone don't touch with your bare hands. So the coals are damaged I take it. I have new windows and doors. And cavity wall insulation was already done when I moved in.

 

[hollyoaks777]

The OP is in debt because her heating bills are higher now than at her previuos property, and she didn't increase here direct debit.

My advice is: STOP LOOKING FOR THE SOLUTION YOURSELF, a new boiler may well not be the answer, as far as the Housing provider is concerned, they will consider your request as just noise.

You need social services to come round and assess your needs, if there are problems with your heating system / you can't afford it, then they can apply far more pressure on your housing provider than you can - they can actually enforce certain changes / enhancements, and may be able to help with the outstanidng amounts to the energy provider - in certain circumstances they can get it written off.

I called occupational therapist today to see if they could help they said no. Who are social services as I haven't a clue about all this and it was just pure luck the lady asked me if I had any health problems when I called about new meters. And I got them for free be.cause of that

 

[Dotty]

You need to talk to environmental health, citizens advice bureau and the gas Co itself.

You're asking us for a definitive answer to your problem but, other than a rough guess at best there's really not much we can do for you.

Having read this thread through a couple of times now I feel that things have been taken for granted by all parties, although in your case I will concede that you probably weren't to know.

But if it's affecting your health you really do need to contact environmental health.

 

[hollyoaks777]

You need to talk to environmental health, citizens advice bureau and the gas Co itself.

You're asking us for a definitive answer to your problem but, other than a rough guess at best there's really not much we can do for you.

Having read this thread through a couple of times now I feel that things have been taken for granted by all parties, although in your case I will concede that you probably weren't to know.

But if it's affecting your health you really do need to contact environmental health.

OK thank you I really appreciate all the input people have gave me I googled social services and I am calling them tomorrow. Thank you for letting me know that. I will Google environmental health just now as another contact to call if social services can't help me.

 

[tamz]

From the way you speak (type) i take it you are in Scotland.
Firstly, no one should move their gas supply direct debit from one property to another. You leave one property and settle up any difference then start again in the new one.
Thats the way it is
If they have just put you on a direct debit based on the previous tenant take meter readings and ring them or internet them with actual meter readings. Very easy with the Hydro.
Moving on
Step 2, go talk to citizens advice and explain your situation. They will liaise with any 3rd parties
Step 3, speak to social services (or ask cit advice to do so on your behalf)

We are only plumbers and you need more help than we can give you.

 

[hollyoaks777]

From the way you speak (type) i take it you are in Scotland.
Firstly, no one should move their gas supply direct debit from one property to another. You leave one property and settle up any difference then start again in the new one.
Thats the way it is
If they have just put you on a direct debit based on the previous tenant take meter readings and ring them or internet them with actual meter readings. Very easy with the Hydro.
Moving on
Step 2, go talk to citizens advice and explain your situation. They will liaise with any 3rd parties
Step 3, speak to social services (or ask cit advice to do so on your behalf)

We are only plumbers and you need more help than we can give you.

Yes I am Scottish mate. Does it really stand out in typing? That's amazing, anyway no it was me who told them what to take direct debit as I thought it would be about the same. And to my shock it's not. I had a plumber in saying it's of the highest efficiency. My boiler that is but that doesn't make sense for a boiler that he's been able to get spare parts for 10 years. Surely newer boilers are more efficient? Thanks again to everyone for your help and advice I wouldn't know what to do without you's! And I will never forget the help I have had off you's!

 

[gmartine]

Listen carefully mate because it seems you don't want to accept the same answer you've been getting from several contributors which is that your boiler is fine despite it's age.

If you really want to know what is cheaper to run then use your fire (only) for a day and then do the same for the central heating making a note of the gas meter reading (units) at the start and end of the day(s) as long as both days are of similar temperature of course.


Read Tamz contribution again.

 

[hollyoaks777]

Listen carefully mate because it seems you don't want to accept the same answer you've been getting from several contributors which is that your boiler is fine despite it's age.

If you really want to know what is cheaper to run then use your fire (only) for a day and then do the same for the central heating making a note of the gas meter reading (units) at the start and end of the day(s) as long as both days are of similar temperature of course.


Read Tamz contribution again.

Not at all I do believe what I have been told I was just wondering if there were more efficient boilers. Fires not going on again be as well throwing money up the chimney. I am planning on doing a test with the heating on all day and see what it's using. Just want to be right about everything before I start making calls on Monday. And I am glad of all the input.

 

[Riley]

Your boiler is not your problem. You need help with other underlying factors in your property

 

[Rickster123]

Can I ask why you would be entitled to a more efficient boiler than the one you currently have?

 

[hollyoaks777]

Your boiler is not your problem. You need help with other underlying factors in your property

Yes I know that but I can't seem to figure it out. It's got cavity wall insulation, new windows and doors. Is it as simple as radiators as these are at least 25 years old.

 

[Riley]

It's a larger property isn't it ???

 

[hollyoaks777]

It's a larger property isn't it ???

Yes but not massively and the plumber I had in is in a 3 bedroom up and downstairs and bigger than my house £46 a month. My sister is in an even bigger house than that with 4 bedrooms 2 toilets etc. Bath every day for the youngest shower for the other 3 2 adults 2 kids £60 a month. So it can't be that or can it?

 

[jtsplumbing]

I have replied several times to this person even give them a rough breakdown on what they will save & how long it will take to recoup the cost of replacing the boiler, But they seem determined to spend out on replacing a boiler thinking its going to save them money on gas in a property that's not even there's, Told them the heating is-not there problem but don't want to listen, So if it makes you feel happy go ahead and spend your money on a new boiler, I'm sure the council would like all there tenants to do the same, it would save them a fortune

 

[hollyoaks777]

I have replied several times to this person even give them a rough breakdown on what they will save & how long it will take to recoup the cost of replacing the boiler, But they seem determined to spend out on replacing a boiler thinking its going to save them money on gas in a property that's not even there's, Told them the heating is-not there problem but don't want to listen, So if it makes you feel happy go ahead and spend your money on a new boiler, I'm sure the council would like all there tenants to do the same, it would save them a fortune

You have me wrong I like to be double sure before I start a fight. And it is a fight. That's all and I am more than sure now sorry if you feel unvalued but you are well and truly valued my friend.

 

[Rickster123]

You have me wrong I like to be double sure before I start a fight. And it is a fight. That's all and I am more than sure now sorry if you feel unvalued but you are well and truly valued my friend.

A fight for what? A new boiler free of charge when there's nothing wrong with yours? I don't really understand the point of this.

 

[Riley]

I maintain the problem is in your house and is not the boiler To be honest I would go back to what Tamz said and actually get some people in to assess your property for its heat and energy efficiency.

 

[hollyoaks777]

A fight for what? A new boiler free of charge when there's nothing wrong with yours? I don't really understand the point of this.

A fight for anything off them no not a boiler, but plumber did say that these type of systems were fitted when the back boiler was behind the fire. And are at least 25 years old even the energy company is bamboozled with the amount of units I used over the year and want £140 to test the meter. As they think the meter maybe at fault.