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& B.Gas who can't sort out simple problems.Of course it’s fixable and if it worked before then it should again. But concerned with the installer swapping pipes over
Discuss Hot water from Valliant Boiler in the Plumbing Jobs | The Job-board area at PlumbersForums.net
& B.Gas who can't sort out simple problems.Of course it’s fixable and if it worked before then it should again. But concerned with the installer swapping pipes over
British gas couldnt find the issue?& B.Gas who can't sort out simple problems.
No. The installer was obtained from Valiant website [Turn your guarantee up to 10].Margaret
Was the contract to instal the boiler and hive with British Gas?
Londonwhere are you based Margaret?
Margaret,
On the positive front, it is good that the original installer is actively engaged in the resolution. Irrespective of achieving success, at least he/ she has the commitment and is trying to resolve the issue.
Switching flow / return without sound logic (when the heating side is functioning ) is puzzling. I am assuming that he/she ( at the time of switching) has not relocated the magnetic filter ( which I recall is adjacent to the hot water cylinder) onto the “new” return, leaving the new boiler unprotected from debris flowing from the system back to the boiler? That is not the end of the world, but demonstrates poor thinking in the act of desperation
If you wish feel free to message me at [email protected]
If you are relatively close, I am happy to look at it for you - to give you a few pointers fir your installer to rectify the problem
Margaret,
I cannot see why the installer has reversed the flow on on your system. The issue you have described is that the only problem you have is that you cannot run Hot water without have the Central Heating on.
My view is that either :
The control wiring between the two two port valves and the Hive interface is incorrect.
Or, the micro switch in the two port valve controlling hot water is not functioning ( I think you said that the synchronous motor was changed. The installer may have damaged the micro switch or dislodged the connection in the process.
The only reason to change the pipework configuration that I can think of, is if the installer has fitted the Hot Water two port valve downstream of the Central Heating two port valve. I have seen this before on new installations.
To conclude, to operate a condensing boiler for Hot water only is as simple as it gets, a boiler, two pipes, a valve and an indirect cylinder. Better still you know that the hydraulic circuit works, because it functions when the central heating is on. I would have expected the installer to operate the boiler in this mode upon first use before testing the central heating circuit.
Presumably the installer cleaned the existing central heating system before installing the new boiler? So should have a good understanding of the system pipework layout.
With respect to the crossovers, they should be removed or if deemed to be correct the magnetic filter should be reinstalled on the return immediately before the boiler.
In my view, the actions taken by your installer earlier this week are putting your boiler warranty at risk.
My view has not changed since your problem was first posted. It is not a difficult fix for a competent heating engineer or a plumber with a good knowledge of heating systems - and this is most properly trained experienced plumbers.
On a final point, don’t let him/her take up any more flooring / floor boards - that is just not needed to fix this.
Feel free to share this note with your installer - it may help to focus their mind in the fault finding process.
Margaret,
I find this quite odd. Are you sure that the installer of the boiler was aGas Safe registered individual and that the installer of the system (if different) was a a credible plumber?
The issues you describe and the actions being taken just don’t seem credible to me.
On the basis that the boiler is performing properly, any reputable plumber should be able to diagnose (and probably fix) the problem with your hot water on site within 1 to 2 hours.
A good rule of thumb, is to diagnose the problem, think through the solution then get your tools out and implement it. Be very wary of people get their tools out before having thought through what the problem is
Hi Margaret, I see in your response to @Brambles that the heating SYNCHRON motor was changed, yet the issue could be the hot water one.
Hello CMW1982, yes, I see on my very first OP on this forum that it was the heating synchron changed and the installer said that to me.
To note, he tried testing hot water by removing and not having the drayton cubes attached/connected to CH pipe and HW pipe. I recall that both B.Gas and himself held the HW drayton cube to their ears. Not sure what they listening to.
By the way, why would the CH Drayton synchron need changing if new and less than 6 months?
Hi Margaret, are you still in the same scenario?
I’ve just been studying your photo of the cylinder cupboard, and I could be wrong (I am tired)but want to clarify something that’s bugging me. Are you able to photograph the yellowed markups on photo more closely? I want to see if the chrome valve is open, and also where that 15mm pipe tees in. I’m trying to figure out I feel your flow and return are piped up wrong. The Magnaclean states flow of water one way, but it could be another way?
View attachment 38466
If I read those photos correctly, the flow is being directed into the DHW tank through both the flow and return connections.
Boiler Flow being directed to the two two port valves (HW and CH) and the magnaclean! HW return connection connected to the Magnaclean on the flow side. Ie. Flow to flow on the HW circuit when the two port valve is opened.
Margaret, I cannot see that this installation has been plumbed in by anyone with basic plumbing or heating engineering experience.
If I include the work undertaken to switch flow and return in one if your earlier posts and your comment that the valve actuators have mbeen left disconnected - it has all the signs of the work being undertaken by someone with a very low level of understanding as to how an S plan system works.
You need a normal plumber to come in and instal the pipework in a conventional manner for an S plan system. Thereafter, to check the connections and commission the Nest controller.
Hello Brambles, thanks for the above. Just wanted to mention, in case I typed incorrect, I meant that the installer, he said he will leave the Drayton off and not attached to the pipework (it is dangling down and not 'clipped' onto the CH pipework). Hope this clarifies that part.
If I read those photos correctly, the flow is being directed into the DHW tank through both the flow and return connections.
Boiler Flow being directed to the two two port valves (HW and CH) and the magnaclean! HW return connection connected to the Magnaclean on the flow side. Ie. Flow to flow on the HW circuit when the two port valve is opened.
Margaret, I cannot see that this installation has been plumbed in by anyone with basic plumbing or heating engineering experience.
If I include the work undertaken to switch flow and return in one if your earlier posts and your comment that the valve actuators have mbeen left disconnected - it has all the signs of the work being undertaken by someone with a very low level of understanding as to how an S plan system works.
You need a normal plumber to come in and instal the pipework in a conventional manner for an S plan system. Thereafter, to check the connections and commission the Nest controller.
The pic isn't clear but I believe the 15mm coming from the flow before the magna clean is just a bypass which is teed in to the top connection of the 22mm cylinder return.This is what Brambles means, the Drayton (actuator - plumber/heating engineer terminology) has been disconnected, as in dangling down. You have flow into your cylinder twice, and possibly not going somewhere else as the isolation valve is off. Below is a ‘basic’ principle of how your system should work, however where it is blue, yours is red, and where it is red, yours is red. Hope this makes a bit more sense?
View attachment 38483
The pic isn't clear but I believe the 15mm coming from the flow before the magna clean is just a bypass which is teed in to the top connection of the 22mm cylinder return.
The other angle I was looking at was the direction of flow on the Drayton valves. Should flow from A through to B, but looks incorrect on this set-up.
View attachment 38484
Thanks, CBW1982 for the diagram, would this possibly explain why my water is only lukewarm and not hot? [When immersion switched off and Hive left to run as per the set schedule timer]This is what Brambles means, the Drayton (actuator - plumber/heating engineer terminology) has been disconnected, as in dangling down. You have flow into your cylinder twice, and possibly not going somewhere else as the isolation valve is off. Below is a ‘basic’ principle of how your system should work, however where it is blue, yours is red, and where it is red, yours is red. Hope this makes a bit more sense?
View attachment 38483
Hello there, I recall, when I pressed the hive to boost for HW (meaning 'on'), the Drayton on the HW pipe (was on A, and the black clip on the top was upwards popped out heading upwards). But when I clicked cancel HW Boost on the hive, the black on side slided downwards to B, and the top clip also slid downwards. Hope this makes sense as to what I saw.
Thanks, CBW1982 for the diagram, would this possibly explain why my water is only lukewarm and not hot? [When immersion switched off and Hive left to run as per the set schedule timer]
Hi Margaret,
It should when on go towards B, then return to A
Morning CBW1982, I recall when it was HW was activated for 'on' it was A, and when I clicked cancel on the Hive boost - the Drayton cube slid back down to 'B' and the clip on the top of the cube also went downwards.
Definitely complain to vaillant. The engineers on their website the same as Any other only means they have completed one of their training courses. It doesn't actually mean the installer knows what they are doing.Morning Margaret,
I would say that this is incorrect, and is probably as Craig has said why you needed a new synchron motor in the heating, wouldn’t surprise me if you needed one for the hot water also. It’s obviously been setup wrong, and as difficult as it sounds, I think you need to write off your other engineer and get another one in - maybe one for Citizens Advice? I would also complain to Vaillant as you obtained your engineer from their website - maybe something they could help with?
Definitely complain to vaillant. The engineers on their website the same as Any other only means they have completed one of their training courses. It doesn't actually mean the installer knows what they are doing.
Vaillant themselves aren't responsible for the installs of the independent installers on their website and to be honest, I'm not sure if a complaint will get you anything other than an apology but if it was me, I would still complain as an installer who they have effectively recommended has messed up and is costing you time and possibly money.Hello Craig, I remember I called out Vaillant and an engineer visited because of the reoccurring problem. He said it was nothing to do with the boiler and to contact the installer. The Vaillant engineer also said that they are not responsible for the installer even though I told him this person was obtained from their website, the Vaillant male said: "the installer is not employed by them". They are denying responsibility. Not sure where to go with this. Any suggestions? Thanks a lot, everyone on here.
Hello Craig, I remember I called out Vaillant and an engineer visited because of the reoccurring problem. He said it was nothing to do with the boiler and to contact the installer. The Vaillant engineer also said that they are not responsible for the installer even though I told him this person was obtained from their website, the Vaillant male said: "the installer is not employed by them". They are denying responsibility.
I also recall that I asked whether if there are there any other works required for the installation before any works started, and the installer said no and that all prices have been factored in.
Not sure where to go with this. Any suggestions? Thanks a lot, everyone on here.
Forget Vaillant, the boilers fine and although you obtained the installers info off of their website they won't give a monkeys. They should do though, and remove the installer, but it will be of no concern to them.
Write a letter, recorded delivery, to the installer. Outline the issues and state if you do not receive within 7 days a definitive way forward to correct the install then you will have no option but to employ somebody to correct the installation at their expense.
No more phone calls only letters.
Hello SimonG, wanted to ask, I have an invoice from British Gas for their attendance to the house to look at the hot water issue (as the original installer was not available at the time when contacted). British gas came and he replaced the PCB board but I've been charged for this work, in consideration feel rather unfair with the additional charge when the boiler was newly installed?
I don't have many run ins when it comes to boilers under warranty but it is my understanding that if any individual other than the manufacturers attempt a repair, does it not void the warranty?
The installer was previously with BG and 13 years experience as displayed/advertised on Valiant website.
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