Cold Water Feed to Water Heater is Hot and Makes 'Gurgling' Noises

[Bort]

Plumbing Forum,

I'm after some guidance as to what may be causing a problem with our hot water system which randomly started last week. The system is six years old and has been regularly checked and maintained.

Whenever we turn our water heater on and it calls for water from the header tank in the loft, the 'cold feed to water heater' pipe gets very hot and there is a loud 'gurling' and 'whooshing' noise from this pipe although this is not constant. Our water is still heated as normal and the central heating is functioning normally but this noise is really annoying - especially as the airing cupboard is in our bedroom!

I've attached some pictures of the mid-position switch which is set to 'auto' and the green water pump which has a small black box set to position No.2. The cold water feed pipe is the one with the green water pump fitted to it.

I know very little about plumbing so before I call someone out I just want to know whether this is a major problem or one that I can rectify myself. I have not changed any settings so I have no idea what has caused this annoying issue.

Many thanks if anyone can give me any guidance,

Bort

 

[diamondgas]

Hi Bort & :welcome: to the forum

Sounds like you have some air pushing around the system ... Any chance of a picture of the pipework above the pump? Do you have tanks in the loft? Maybe worth checking they're full especially the little one first thoughts

 

[Bort]

Hi Diamond Gas,

Thanks for the speedy reply! I've taken a snap looking up the pipework, as requested. There is a cut-off to the cold water feed but that is fully open. We think we had a water cut last weekend but we were away - could that have caused air to enter the system?

The 'gurgling' and 'whooshing' is most prominent around teh green water pump area. Moving the red dial on the black box to '3' speeds it up and to '1' slows it down but the noises are still present.

I'll pop up in the loft tomorrow and look in to both loft tanks. What should my actions be if this is not full? I guess it's a ball-cock issue?

Many thanks once again,

Bort

 

[Simon F]

hello Bort,
the tap on the cold feed should not be there.
how many radiators do you have? try pump at speed 1 does it give enough flow?
you will need to check the f+e tank has water in it.
could be an indication of a restriction somewhere causing air to be sucked in.

the water being turned of would not have affected your heating system.

 

[mountainman]

The small tank should be no more than a third full of water.
If it's empty that would cause your problem.

 

[WaterTight]

If the little tank is empty once you've sorted the cause (ball valve most likely) you'll still have air trapped. Easiest way might be to bleed pump with big screw on front.

 

[Bort]

Hi Simon,

The house builder will have fitted that tap - it's fully open. We have five radiators downstairs (hall, toilet, lounge and kitchen) then five upstairs (bedrooms, en-suite, landing and bathroom).

I'm going in the loft tomorrow to check the status of the expansion tank.

What factors cause air to get in to the system? I am no expert in plumbing, as you can probably tell!

Thanks again all,

Bort

 

[Bort]

WaterTight,

As I say, I'm no expert - how easy is it to bleed the pump wit hthe big screw and will I need lots of buckets? Never done this kind of thing before.

Thanks again,

Bort

 

[diamondgas]

Hi Diamond Gas,

Thanks for the speedy reply! I've taken a snap looking up the pipework, as requested. There is a cut-off to the cold water feed but that is fully open. We think we had a water cut last weekend but we were away - could that have caused air to enter the system?

The 'gurgling' and 'whooshing' is most prominent around teh green water pump area. Moving the red dial on the black box to '3' speeds it up and to '1' slows it down but the noises are still present.

I'll pop up in the loft tomorrow and look in to both loft tanks. What should my actions be if this is not full? I guess it's a ball-cock issue?

Many thanks once again,

Bort

Why do plumbers do this configuration? Sheeeeeeeeeeeesh!!

Well Bort I hope the problem lies in the lack of water in the small header tank ... A pump hates to try and 'drag' air through it. Kind of just spins in the 'air' and moves nothing! Personally I think it's a sin to have a pump flowing down-over! Ho-Hum!!!

what make boiler do you have fitted? If it's relatively modern you can get the grief of drawing in air etc quashed with some simple pipe alterations

 

[Bort]

Hello again,

Well, I've just spent an hour up in the loft navigating around splinter-ridden joists and dusty insulation and found the small expasion tank to be pretty much a third full. The ball-cock is working fine and there is a healthy amount of water in the feeder tank too. Interestingly, the two pipes that are very hot in the airing cupboard (the one with the green water pump and the adjacent one) are pretty much stone cold when they reach in to the loft and there is no water coming out of the pipe when it reaches the expansion tank.

I have bled all the radiators and none had any air come out except one upstairs one which has always suffered from a small amount of air. Also, I have turned the water pump from setting '2' to setting '1' but there is no difference.

I am really at a loss as to what is going on here but the whooshing noises and sound of gushing water can still be heard in the pipe with the green water pump.

Our boiler, in the kitchen, is a Potterton Suprema 50L.

Thanks for your continued support on this forum,

Bort

 

[diamondgas]

Pott Suprima's are okay but I've know them to overheat and also faults with pump-overrun that can cause some issues. Try turning the thermostat on the boiler down to minimum if for no other reason than to eliminate heat related .. In fact you could try running the system with the boiler turned off/minimum on stat and see if the noise is still present ... Let us know if there's any change with these suggestions Bort

 

[galaxy_plumbing]

WaterTight,

As I say, I'm no expert - how easy is it to bleed the pump wit hthe big screw and will I need lots of buckets? Never done this kind of thing before.

Thanks again,

Bort

Slowly lose big screw on the pump until see some water coming out, then tighten up. Don't remove it completely.

 

[Bort]

Massive gurgling this morning when the water heater came on - I turned down the boiler thermostat last night so today I'll get my screwdriver on that big screw to see if there's any air in that area, if not then I'm really baffled.

 

[diamondgas]

Massive gurgling this morning when the water heater came on - I turned down the boiler thermostat last night so today I'll get my screwdriver on that big screw to see if there's any air in that area, if not then I'm really baffled.

With this boiler you can combine the feed and vent pipe..... If you have issues with air being drawn into the pipework there's a chance the feed pipe is blocked or severely restricted and/or the pipe configuration is at fault. I think it's most probably time for a plumber Bort unless you fancy doing a bit of pipework alterations?

Without being present I'm guessing you have, as said, feed and vent issues.... Combining these into one pipe would be my best advice as the way forward should it be found that that's where the problem lies.

 

[Bort]

I got no air out of the big screw this morning and now I have an even bigger problem in that the red LED status light is constantly lit on the boiler and it will not turn on when either central heating or hot water is called for. It fires-up for about 30 seconds then shuts down. Pressing the reset button or powering the system off and back on again doesn't do anything either.

I think it's game over on this one and time to call out a plumber... :sad3:

 

[diamondgas]

I got no air out of the big screw this morning and now I have an even bigger problem in that the red LED status light is constantly lit on the boiler and it will not turn on when either central heating or hot water is called for. It fires-up for about 30 seconds then shuts down. Pressing the reset button or powering the system off and back on again doesn't do anything either.

I think it's game over on this one and time to call out a plumber... :sad3:

I'd agree Bort .... Maybe you have a dodgy pump but I think there's something more than that going TBH Post on the forum here for some help, lookng for a plumber/gas engineer site!

 

[Bort]

Do you think replacing teh water pump may work?

 

[diamondgas]

Do you think replacing teh water pump may work?

Honestly ... NO! From what you've described I think you've got something else going on regards system design ... A new pump may sort out the symptoms but won't cure the cause and you may well pay for the consequences long term....! Flippin heck I sounded like a doctor then :rofl:

 

[Bort]

DiamondGas,

Thank you so much for your comments and guidance. I'm making arrangements to get a plumber out over the next few ays. Luckily, we're heading in to summer so central heating isn't a major concern and we have the immersion heater for the hot water.

Bort

 

[diamondgas]

DiamondGas,

Thank you so much for your comments and guidance. I'm making arrangements to get a plumber out over the next few ays. Luckily, we're heading in to summer so central heating isn't a major concern and we have the immersion heater for the hot water.

Bort

Have you tried folk on this forum? They've seen your dilemma and you can check them out too to a degree Hope you get it sorted Bort

 

[Bort]

Cheers DiamondGas - where's best to ask for help on the forum for a local plumber?

 

[PlumbBobBob]

there is a section called looking for a plumber/gas engineer just post in there

 

[diamondgas]

Here you go bort I'm looking for a Plumber or Gas engineer./ click the link and put your request up ... vet the guys who pm you, Quiz them on call out costs and labour per hour stuff check them out v=a their profile etc! Good luck

 

[smitty_grimsby]

well looking at the problems of the gurgling and wooshing, i would have been tempted to say check how high the vent pipe was above the central heating cistern to ensure it was over 15inch for sufficient expansion, with it being open vented obviously oxygenated water will be causing the system to slowly sludge up, and water blowing over, if incorrectly maintained! but now your boiler isnt working, id deffinatly say call an engineer. and they should check all aspects.

 

[Bort]

All,

Problem sorted! We had a plumber friend come over yesterday morning and he diagnosed a valve which appeared to have slowly closed itself over time - it's the red one to the bottom of the water tank. He opened this up and within minutes the water heater was working fine and the boiler was behaving itself again! Basically, the disrupted flow of water was causing 'kettling' and teh boiler was locking out.

Thanks so much to everyone who responded to my query and pointing me in the right direction of some basic checks to help diagnose the problem.

Cheers,

Bort

 

[ajgas]

hi, how far out are you? im in stoke, i dont mind coming out if your just in crewe? thanks jon 07793894114, cant p.m you your inbox is full sorry

www.ajgas.com