Hot Water Copper Cylinder - Indirect ( DIY Job)

[alexrobot]

Hi Guys,


I want to replace my hot water cylinder with a bigger one and since I don't have too much space available it seems that I need a custom one.


I did try to find one with the right diameter & height at local big DIY Shops but couldn't...hence I asked my best friend Google about hot water cylinders...and after some research I found some manufactured online by Manley and Newark Copper Cylinder...both seem to have good prices...but since I'm not in the trade and only doing a diy job for me...never heard o them and cannot find too many reviews apart from their websites.


I have a gravity system so I need a Vented Hot Water Cylinder - Indirect...which is not that complicated but I noticed the warranty on most of these copper cylinders is either 2 or 5 years, predominantly with 2 years.


I remember my granddad telling me: Son, copper is for life ...always bet on copper and basic warranty was for 25 years min.


I am looking only at Grade 3 as I only need for max 10m but should I be worried about this? should I go for Grade 1?
I don't really want to replace this cylinder in 5 years time because the hard water done some damage...




Also I noticed that I can ask to install a shower outlet which I need for my shower pump...but it doesn't mention to be an Essex flange which I was recommended by someone; is this outlet still good?


The last thing is the insulation thickness which if it's below 50mm then it will not be according to British Standards ( Part L?) as I understand.
What I need is a cylinder with diameter ( including insulation) not bigger than 450mm; so I was thinking to buy either one with 350mm diameter and 50mm insulation or one with 400mm diameter and 25mm insulation.


Can the 25mm diameter be that bad and waste so much heat? The cupboard is part of my room and next to it is the bathroom so the heat will go in the house ...well, that's my thinking to get away with 25mm but what do you think?




My Questions will be:






1.Any good or bad experiences with online Manley Copper Cylinders & Newark ? any others recommended?
2.Should I worry about the Grade 3 ones with 2 years warranty?
3.Is the Shower outlet a good option? or better to ask for an Essex flange?
4.Is it that bad to go for 25mm insulation thickness?




I know that it might look silly to think that much about a hot water cylinder but prefer to do my homework before doing a job.


I appreciate any help, thx
Alex

 

[Reg Man]

Up your grade, if you want piece of mind. Grade 3 is standard so don't last to long.

 

[drip-dry]

Do you need a bigger cylinder or just one with a quicker recovery rate....

 

[Best]

There might be vented stainless steel cylinders made in a size to suit you.
I would sometimes be prepared to shave a slice of the side of the insulation on a cylinder to squeeze it in a tight spot, but only if I have no choice.
The Essex flanges are to be avoided in my opinion - they have soft rubber seal and cannot take much heat. You can get an extra tapping on side of cylinder near top, if you wished, or connect shower hot another method.

 

[Best]

On the point of Grade of copper cylinders, - I know that Grade 3 has a Grade 2 base (thicker) but I know some Grade 2 cylinders only have same base.
Grade 3 cylinders are 0.7mm thick sides and 1.2mm base I think.

 

[alexrobot]

Thanks Guys,

Ok, I think I will go for Grade 1 for peace of mind.
The only reason I need a bigger cylinder is to allow to have power shower for longer than 10 mins .

I don't have a pump right now but I bought a 3 bar one ; I have a separate electric shower + the gravity pressure which is not great but does the job when needed.

My neighbour has the same cylinder size as mine ( 1050mm height with 400 diameter) and with a 3 bar pump it only takes aprox. 10 min to empty the cylinder. I have space in the cupboard to go for 1800mm height if needed...only diameter is the issue and cannot go more than 450mm with insulation; at the moment I have 2 insulation jackets which can be fitted around but with the fixed foam it would be different.

Great idea to shave off some insulation if a must, thanks!

The shower outlet which they mention can be installed on one side...but don't know what type of outlet they refer to...; will ask them but I suppose they will say: The best one .

 

[JCSPLUMBING]

Thanks Guys,

Ok, I think I will go for Grade 1 for peace of mind.
The only reason I need a bigger cylinder is to allow to have power shower for longer than 10 mins .

I don't have a pump right now but I bought a 3 bar one ; I have a separate electric shower + the gravity pressure which is not great but does the job when needed.

My neighbour has the same cylinder size as mine ( 1050mm height with 400 diameter) and with a 3 bar pump it only takes aprox. 10 min to empty the cylinder. I have space in the cupboard to go for 1800mm height if needed...only diameter is the issue and cannot go more than 450mm with insulation; at the moment I have 2 insulation jackets which can be fitted around but with the fixed foam it would be different.

Great idea to shave off some insulation if a must, thanks!

The shower outlet which they mention can be installed on one side...but don't know what type of outlet they refer to...; will ask them but I suppose they will say: The best one .

Have you upgraded your cold water storage cistern? A power shower also needs a big cold water storage capacity to feed it. With a 3 bar shower longer than 10mins, I'd be looking at a 100 gallons. Then you also have the issue of weight on the joists.

 

[Rckape]

Don't get too caught up about the shower outlet. The manufacturer won't be using an Essex flange. It will be a permanent tapping brazed onto the copper - you don't really get a more reliable seal.

 

[alexrobot]

JCS: I only have 273L cold water tank ( 60 gallons) ; I have big joists every 30cm ...I suppose a bigger tank should be ok...and I thought I have a big tank .

Rckape: Ok, thanks; that sounds great.

I called both manufacturers and they mentioned that there shouldn't be a big issue with 25mm insulation thickness but one of them recommended 50mm minimum.

 

[JCSPLUMBING]

If you want to shower for longer then I would recommend increasing your cold water storage cistern size and your hot water storage cylinder. You can connect another to it using 28mm pipe, this will effectively double your shower time. You would need to blank your old cold shower feed and relocate it to the new cistern to encourage flow and so it doesn't stagnate in there.