Looking for gas safe/pressurised system, solar thermal plumber Lincoln, Lincolnshire

[Funky]

Hi,

I'm a billy basic plumber and I am upgrading my house (only moved here a year ago). It is a small 1980's detached house with twin tanks in the loft open vented system. boiler on outside wall in kitchen and immersion in airing cupboard on first floor.
I'm hitting a wall with what I wanted to achieve but no one will give me a straight answer why, so maybe someone on the forum will?

I've had various quotes and the focus of many plumbers seems to be to put in a combi boiler, which is not what I was asking or looking for.

I wanted to upgrade the house and try to make it in some way future proof, so was thinking of installing a pressurised system, such as a megaflow? I want the option of upgrading to either thermal hot water or a full PV thermal system, so I need to keep a pressurised cylinder in either the airing cupboard or in the loft?

I have removed a lot of surface pipe work to the rads on the ground floor and put them in the walls (3 x rads) because of problems getting a plumber, I had to have these plastered over before pressure testing (yes I know, but the plasterers were booked and I couldn't cancel them).
most of the flooring on the first floor (tongue and groove chip board), has been taken up, so the majority of the c/h pipework is accessible.

A local plumber has just completed a pressurised system for a development of houses using a kit made by Viessman which is a solar thermal system, so I contacted him, thinking he would be up for the project but after talking to him on the phone, he asked if I'd thought of a combi!

Another plumber wanted to fit a new condensing boiler but the cylinder would be gravity flow, which meant I would either have to go with a pump shower running off of the cylinder or go for an electric shower in the bathroom?

So could anyone tell me the "real" reason why no one wants to do this job because I can't understand it!
I've done all the donkey work, I will be on hand as an extra pair of hands labourer or mate and tea maker. I do not require any making good, as I have a plasterer, electrician and I will be laying the new floors
Sorry but I'm at a loss, so if someone could explain why all (so far), are so reluctant to fit a pressurised system (no BS please, I've been fed enough of this all ready), I would love to know.
If I can't get this problem solved then I will have to re-think my project and future proofing might no longer be an option, I'll be back to a combi or standard condensate boiler, electric or pump shower?

Any help, assistance, information or advice will be gratefully received as I am slowly losing the will to live, lol

Many thanks to anyone who contacts me with options

Regards

Gibbi

 

[Simon F]

Re: Looking for gas safe/pressurised system, solar thermal plumber Lincoln, Lincolnsh

Hi Gibbi. welcome along.
an unvented cylinder won't give change from £1000 and that is without the cost for labour,
so a combi is certainly the cheaper option, so maybe that is what they are thinking, who knows??
maybe they are not qualified to fit the unvented cylinder.
Hopefully someone local to you from the forum will pick up your request.

 

[Funky]

Re: Looking for gas safe/pressurised system, solar thermal plumber Lincoln, Lincolnsh

Simon hi,
Thanks for the quick reply and the info, I haven't been able to get even close to a quote yet? but it's good to know the the pressure cylinders are so costly. I knew it would be at a price but didn't realise it was that steep.

If the price is prohibitive then, I might have to move to plan B.
I've heard a lot of negative views on combi's ranging from low flow rates to waiting for ever for the water to become hot, (depending on where the boiler is sited) but maybe I'll have to re-think the hole plan. Might mean, looking again at a pump or electric shower?

Many thanks again for your reply

George

 

[Ermintrude]

Looking for gas safe/pressurised system, solar thermal plumber Lincoln, Lincoln

How long are you staying in the house? All systems have a payback time. If your in and out in 5 years don't waste your money! Most muppets buying house look for a combi! Unless u have 3 bathrooms 9 kids and poor mains pressure & flow rate.

Hot water delivery from any installation is dependent on installer. Top end unvented system with shoddy controls and poor set up could be out performed by a 30kw Vokera installed by a copper smith.

How many bathrooms?
How many people will be in house?
Are you on mains gas?
What is flow rate & pressure?
What do you actually want to spend?

 

[Dotty]

Re: Looking for gas safe/pressurised system, solar thermal plumber Lincoln, Lincolnsh

Moving to the heating forum as this isn't really a looking for a guy type thread.

 

[Gray0689]

Looking for gas safe/pressurised system, solar thermal plumber Lincoln, Linco...

A grand will buy you a good 300l solar cylinder
£1500 will buy you a good 30 tube solar kit trade prices
If your a plumber then you should be able to find someone pretty easy imho

 

[Funky]

Re: Looking for gas safe/pressurised system, solar thermal plumber Lincoln, Lincolnsh

Hi,

Thanks for your quick reply to my post.
On the question of the house it's quite small, 1 bathroom, on average 2-4 people in the house. Mains gas (I've been informed the 15mm feed will need to be changed to a 22mm). I've been told the mains water pressure is good.
I've had different quotes and different boilers suggested; from Ideal to Worcester Bosch to Glow worm. (sorry I've not come across Vokera).
The quotes have been for just changing the boiler through to boiler and system upgrade, from around £1800 to £3000.00 (these quotes were not for solar thermal or a pressurised system).

Not sure if this helps?

Regards

George

 

[Gray0689]

Looking for gas safe/pressurised system, solar thermal plumber Lincoln, Linco...

A grand will buy you a good 300l solar cylinder
£1500 will buy you a good 30 tube solar kit trade prices
If your a plumber then you should be able to find someone pretty easy imho

Go get yourself on unvented course be good for you and far cheaper doing all work yourself

 

[Ermintrude]

Looking for gas safe/pressurised system, solar thermal plumber Lincoln, Lincoln

Sorry but your 100% combi job. Will solar provide all requirements 100% of time or will gas boiler also be required?

Don't fit a Glow worm get a valiant or Baxi or ideal logic 35kw. Not nor have ever been a wb fan!

40kw Baxi duo tec, flue , timer magnaclean chemicals £1050 inc vat!

You don't need a 40 I would spec u between 28kw and 35kw.

Valiant are massive cases and 5 or 7 Years p&l nice interface.

Ideal compact, easy service and repair , 7 years

Baxi 7 or 10 years - bigger than ideal but just as reliable and good backup service!

U would need to upgrade gas supply but 22mm is installed for roughly between £15 and £30 per meter dep on location and difficulty 28mm add on 20%

 

[Funky]

Re: Looking for gas safe/pressurised system, solar thermal plumber Lincoln, Lincoln

I think you have covered nearly everything. I will be requiring a new boiler and even if I didn't go the solar route, for hot water at this time, I still wanted to keep a cylinder, this is so if I upgraded to solar (even if it's only for hot water), the pipework and cylinder is still in place, I don't want to start ripping up flooring just to upgrade to solar or thermal water.
I think I'm back to where the last plumber left me. He was going to fit combi with a new cylinder and the hot water was, he said, gravity fed. I didn't quite understand this but it would appear that he was offering me a compromise; the system he thought I should have plus the cylinder that I wanted to retain? I must admit, I thought that the solar guys said that I require a stainless steel pressurised cylinder, maybe I just got that wrong?
Thanks for all of your help, it's definitely helped. I might have to go cap in hand to the last plumber and ask him to reconsider doing the job for me, as I'm finding it difficult to find someone I trust to do the job properly in Lincoln.

Many thanks again for taking the time to walk me though it, I'm still a bit grey on the cylinder issue. I thought that if I wanted to fit solar to help heat the water, I required a pressurised cylinder but maybe I've confused myself.
With the combi's systems, I'm still a bit concerned about the water pressure when showering? I've been told that with my water pressure, it wouldn't be it would be o/k? and I think it was suggested to go with a 35kw for the extra flow rate.

I think you've convinced me that I'm making things to complicated and this would be prohibitive from an expense view point.
I need to get back on track and get this project (my home) moving again.

Many Thanks

George

 

[Ermintrude]

Looking for gas safe/pressurised system, solar thermal plumber Lincoln, Lincoln

Combi works off mains pressure no cylinder attached. Think he was selling you a heat only boiler and using ex cylinder! Combi has no tanks and heats water as u use it. You will also need a thermostatic shower - this will have good pressure and run from boiler, it needs to be thermostatic to prevent scalding! If you have floors up and you are fitting a combi from a system, remove all the old 22mm hot water pipe and replace with 15mm. This will reduce the volume of cold water you draw off before hot water. The hot water currently comes from the top of your cylinder.

If you are keeping cylinder you probably want a 18kw system boiler on an s-plan pressurised system with a solar cylinder, blank off solar ports to keep clean. You cannot use a traditional copper cylinder as far as I am aware!

 

[Gray0689]

Looking for gas safe/pressurised system, solar thermal plumber Lincoln, Linco...

Combi works off mains pressure no cylinder attached. Think he was selling you a heat only boiler and using ex cylinder! Combi has no tanks and heats water as u use it. You will also need a thermostatic shower - this will have good pressure and run from boiler, it needs to be thermostatic to prevent scalding! If you have floors up and you are fitting a combi from a system, remove all the old 22mm hot water pipe and replace with 15mm. This will reduce the volume of cold water you draw off before hot water. The hot water currently comes from the top of your cylinder.

If you are keeping cylinder you probably want a 18kw system boiler on an s-plan pressurised system with a solar cylinder, blank off solar ports to keep clean. You cannot use a traditional copper cylinder as far as I am aware!

Yes you can get normal copper cylinders with solar coil too

 

[Ermintrude]

Looking for gas safe/pressurised system, solar thermal plumber Lincoln, Lincoln

Think this 1908's house will probably just have an indirect cylinder on a y-plan and cylinder, would it be fit for use with a solar system? Sorry. Thought chap might be being led down garden path by installer? Combi with gravity cylinder? Maybe a valiant from mid 1990's with headder tank for f&e? Why would you use a gravity cylinder on solar if you had good mains pressure out of interest and ignorance? What's the pay back period?

 

[Gray0689]

Looking for gas safe/pressurised system, solar thermal plumber Lincoln, Linco...

Think this 1908's house will probably just have an indirect cylinder on a y-plan and cylinder, would it be fit for use with a solar system? Sorry. Thought chap might be being led down garden path by installer? Combi with gravity cylinder? Maybe a valiant from mid 1990's with headder tank for f&e? Why would you use a gravity cylinder on solar if you had good mains pressure out of interest and ignorance? What's the pay back period?

No obviously it would need a new solar cylinder of correct size for the household and solar
Bad you would only use it on gravity if the householder didnt want to go to major works putting in an unvented cylinder
Heating side can still be pressurised then either a system boiler or a combi could be used it wanted just needs linked in to cylinder coil and say kitchen tap could come off combi

Would I put this in my own house No
But anything can be done

 

[Gray0689]

Looking for gas safe/pressurised system, solar thermal plumber Lincoln, Linco...

Payback would be very dependent on price amount of solar and size of family, orientation of house even down to what part of country
People with higher intellect work that sort of stuff out not me mate