Another Bloody Idiot

[cr0ft]

Just had another idiot (a property developer) who is starting to get funny come payment time. This is despite a detailed written quote being sent out before hand and him agreeing to it and getting us out to do the work. My gut feeling tells me that the work we have been called in to rectify (electrical and plumbing) has all been done (very badly) by him.

I sent him a very polite email on the day the invoice was due as I had a feeling there might be an issue and wanted to head it off before the invoice was late.

His email reply to me: -

Hello Kieran,thanks for your e mail.Can you meet me at the barn at your earliest convenience to discuss this bill (a breakdown of your labour rates and materials,and the unfinished items).Also to quote me on plumbing in the bathroom and building regs have told me I have to fit an extractor fan in the utility.I do appreciate the work that you have done so far and the fact that it is somewhat an ‘unknown quantity’.Once this job is finished to our mutual satisfaction there is some work to quote me on in the other barn.Thanks,Richard . ps do you have the size of the shower tray so I can have the base ready for you to look at.

There were a couple of unfinished items (a vanity unit not fitted as he didn't supply it on the day as he said he would, also a central heating wiring issue not resolved). There were also a couple of extra bits we did at his request on the day. The end result is he got an additional hour or so of labour for free.

He asked me to quote for some other work once we'd finished on the day too. As far as I'm aware there are no issues with any of the workmanship.

To keep this in context, his barn is a 50 mile round trip from Lincoln and our address..

My email: -

Hi ***,

Thanks for your email. I will be unable to get across to [YOUR ADDRESS] in the foreseeable future due to our diary at present, but I would imagine we can discuss most of the items below by phone or email? Certainly if there's any queries regarding the bill etc I would prefer for them to be dealt with in writing.

Regarding the current invoice, it was based on the three of us attending for up to one day at the property. The price remains the same as the original quote you accepted but the schedule of work changed very slightly due to requests on the day from yourself. Removing the motorised valve from the CH system and the work specified on our original quote as being at additional cost (digging up the bathroom floor) was done instead of sorting out the CH wiring. You actually got a bit more work done than originally quoted for as fixing the CH wiring is a 5 minute job. 2 hours were spent investigating the bathroom issue and repairing a leaky pipe under the floor.

We don't really break down labour and material costs any further than what we specify on our written quotes. Just like most businesses, there is a limit to the detail we will give out regarding our charging and pricing etc. Otherwise where would we stop? Estimates would read like novels. It's up to the customer to accept our quotes and if they do then they are happy with the amounts being charged basically! We try and strike a balance between too little and too much detail. I'm sure you can appreciate that if we break down every quote into all the bits we use etc we would never get any work done. I can say though that the materials price used is a very fair price in respect of the consumer unit, RCDs, towel rail valves used to complete your schedule of work. It also includes a fixed cost which is charged to all customers when our pipe freezing machine is used. This actually saves you labour as if we had drained your whole CH system the labour bill would have been around £200 higher for this property [The property is absolutely massive and has an ASHP, 2x plumbed UFH circuits and normal rads].

I hope this makes sense. I'd be very grateful if you could arrange for prompt payment of the above invoice as it's now past the due date. If there are any specific issues with our workmanship then we need to be notified of these at the earliest instance possible as our [DLMURL="http://www.dripbusters.co.uk/terms.htm"]late payment policy[/DLMURL] applies from day 7. I'm very keen to avoid ruining our business relationship by going down that route, as I'm sure you are.

Obviously as soon as payment is received I will get your quote across for the remaining work. I would suggest we quote for any bathroom plumbing and extractor fan requirements if and when you want us to attend to do the work we spoke about the other day?

-------------------------

Any other advice from those who have been in similar positions? I'm not popping back there to justify my pricing as he had a fully itemised quote before and we are charging what we quoted. Certainly not fussed about any further work from him tbh, just want to get paid!

 

[rocketmanbkk]

He needs to pay what was agreed less anything that wasn't done. You've done a bit extra for free & that's goodwill.

Him trying to offer you a carrot by saying he has more work never interests me.

I've had 'can charge less as my sister needs ....' Err no, you ain't my family. I'll discount when I complete your sisters work. Load of rubbish

 

[rpm]

My only comment would be why tell him the CH wiring job is only a 5 minute job? Feel you are leaving the door open for him to come back at you about it.
I gave up playing the Donkey a long time ago mate as I never really got any real work from it.

 

[rocketmanbkk]

I don't get much

 

[rpm]

I don't get much

You rarely do mate, it`s BS for a cheaper price.

 

[hammers4spanner]

Mate stay away from developers builders etc etc unless they agree to materials provided by them and your day rate of £900 a day to be paid daily .

The extra work carrot never worth the hassle
Any invoices i use to send to builders were always very short and precise

 

[Ray Stafford]

Good letter.

Stay polite and business-like, but stick firmly to your principles, and enforce your payment terms.

However, if you think about this, there are opportunities here:

1) Builders and property developers absolutely have to have plumbing work done
2) There will be good, middling and bad builders and developers, simply because there are good, middling and bad in every walk of life
3) Many tradesmen prefer not to work for builders or property developers, because they have been burned in the past by the bad ones
4) The more skilled and better established tradesmen can, generally speaking, afford to be more picky about what work they take and what they turn down, leaving the less skilled, less well established or more desperate to take on this work.

It follow from this that good and middling builders/developers must find it relatively harder to get good plumbers than they should, because they are being lumped together with their bad brethren. So they will often have to put up with dealing with under-skilled, inexperienced people. Which probably makes them suspicious and prone to look for problems, even if the problems arent there. Its a vicious circle.

Therefore, if a good plumber can break this cycle by finding effective ways of:

a) differentiating the good and the middling builder from the bad and
b) managing the business relationship to actively prevent the customer from sliding into "bad practice"

then there is good money to be made.

 

[hammers4spanner]

Problem being ray like all builders if money becomes an issue to them then it also becomes your cash flow problem .
No matter how good the builder is if they have no money then or budget wasn't priced correct then you have an issue.

 

[tomplumb83]

Good advice Ray.

Lets face it, nobody wants to work for builders but needs must. Ive had mainly bad experiences working for builders so I don't bother with them but being as I only have myself to think about it doesn't matter

 

[tomplumb83]

As you've already realised Keiran, this doesn't sound promising!
Keep your eyes on the prize and don't let up till you get your money

Good advice Ray.
Lets face it, nobody wants to work for builders but needs must. Ive had mainly bad experiences working for builders so I don't bother with them but being as I only have myself to think about it doesn't matter