speed fit on secondary return

[SimonG]

So if central heating was on 24/7 365 days a year?

 

[dancinplumba]

So if central heating was on 24/7 365 days a year?

Like in my mums house

 

[SimonG]

Nursing homes etc. Or is that exempt as it's not oxygenated in the central heating.

 

[dancinplumba]

Higher pressure in invented ? CH water isolated from mains ? If secondary return leaks its constant leak ?

 

[vern]

Nursing homes etc. Or is that exempt as it's not oxygenated in the central heating.

I work in loads Simon, and yes they are on a lot, but not 24 hours everyday, maybe the fresh water has an effect too, all I know is what I have seen, not good....

 

[SimonG]

The one round the corner from me do. It's continuous. It's like a bloody oven in there. 9 rooms and 4 flats.

 

[markfxy]

Load of nonsense I've used hep on returns for years with no problems its a lower temp than central heating and the pressure is 3 bar max, another bit of scaremongering about plastic yet again!

 

[Masood]

Load of nonsense I've used hep on returns for years with no problems its a lower temp than central heating and the pressure is 3 bar max, another bit of scaremongering about plastic yet again!

Well... No problems until one occurs! Not suggesting that there will be a problem, of course, but if one does, no manufacturer will honour the warranty, and your insurance will be void. It's like any regulation or precaution - it's not there to cover the 99.999% of situations where nothing goes wrong, but the 0.001% of the time when something does...

You make your choice and take the consequences - you're a braver man than me!

 

[vern]

Load of nonsense I've used hep on returns for years with no problems its a lower temp than central heating and the pressure is 3 bar max, another bit of scaremongering about plastic yet again!

Aww maybe I am wrong then, and the manufactures are too, hence why they dont endorse it for this application, must have been the ammonia essence that caused multiple pipe failures......the returns do have to be on 24 hrs a day for this to occur.

I don't hate plastic pipes, indeed it has it merits in some circumstances, but copper all day long for Vern!

 

[vern]

Well... No problems until one occurs! Not suggesting that there will be a problem, of course, but if one does, no manufacturer will honour the warranty, and your insurance will be void. It's like any regulation or precaution - it's not there to cover the 99.999% of situations where nothing goes wrong, but the 0.001% of the time when something does...

You make your choice and take the consequences - you're a braver man than me!

100% agree...very rare but seen it happen!

 

[markfxy]

my choice is I'll still use it, I know somebody who had a leak on a soldered joint didn't stop me using them either

 

[Howsie]

Load of nonsense I've used hep on returns for years with no problems its a lower temp than central heating and the pressure is 3 bar max, another bit of scaremongering about plastic yet again!

If the manufactures say 'No' then surely no it is?

 

[Howsie]

my choice is I'll still use it, I know somebody who had a leak on a soldered joint didn't stop me using them either

But a properly soldered joint?

 

[markfxy]

the manufacturers say no to a return that"s on 24 hours a day why would you install a system that runs through the night, it should also be on a stat to stop the pump running needlessly, then again you would know that being an experienced plumber

 

[dancinplumba]

the manufacturers say no to a return that"s on 24 hours a day why would you install a system that runs through the night, it should also be on a stat to stop the pump running needlessly, then again you would know that being an experienced plumber

Clearly you have never been in or worked in a nursing or old peoples home, heating and hot water 24/7 365

 

[vern]

the manufacturers say no to a return that"s on 24 hours a day why would you install a system that runs through the night, it should also be on a stat to stop the pump running needlessly, then again you would know that being an experienced plumber

Because you can't on hot water due to legionaries, nursing homes are under intense regulation! As are other commercial applications......

 

[Masood]

the manufacturers say no to a return that"s on 24 hours a day why would you install a system that runs through the night, it should also be on a stat to stop the pump running needlessly, then again you would know that being an experienced plumber

No mate, they don't. The manufacturers say their product must not be used for secondary returns. No mention of hours per day or anything else. Simply no. It's in black and white on their websites. You can choose to ignore it, but pretending that they allow it under certain circumstances is just wishful thinking.

 

[markfxy]

I"ll choose to ignore it as I dont do nursing homes

 

[zzzjim]

Technically plasticiser will leach out of system where water is always changing ,hence more brittle (less spring back to keep things sealed)

Sealed circuit (ie-Boiler) , plasticiser cannot escape gets re-circulated

( PURE Theory no experiece with plastic plumbing--)

Loss of plasticiser and enbrittlement == fact

Trade offs a) How hot
b) How much water thru system
c) How many years of life
d) How many hours a day pump runs
e) Price of install

Life whole system needs to last -vs- water thru system for effect to happen

Copper rules !

 

[markfxy]

Technically plasticiser will leach out of system where water is always changing ,hence more brittle (less spring back to keep things sealed)

Sealed circuit (ie-Boiler) , plasticiser cannot escape gets re-circulated

( PURE Theory no experiece with plastic plumbing--)

Loss of plasticiser and enbrittlement == fact

Trade offs a) How hot
b) How much water thru system
c) How many years of life
d) How many hours a day pump runs
e) Price of install

Life whole system needs to last -vs- water thru system for effect to happen

Copper rules !

load of ole twaddle I bet you don"t even understand half of what you just posted

 

[dancinplumba]

Technically plasticiser will leach out of system where water is always changing ,hence more brittle (less spring back to keep things sealed)

Sealed circuit (ie-Boiler) , plasticiser cannot escape gets re-circulated

( PURE Theory no experiece with plastic plumbing--)

Loss of plasticiser and enbrittlement == fact

Trade offs a) How hot
b) How much water thru system
c) How many years of life
d) How many hours a day pump runs
e) Price of install

Life whole system needs to last -vs- water thru system for effect to happen

Copper rules !

Think your theory is wrong, seen plastic that has been used for dhw that is 25 years old and is still ok, not brittle at all

 

[zzzjim]

dhw that is 25 years old and is still ok, not brittle at all

But did that water keep getting mixed/re-circulated with 210 litres of fresh water ,ready to soak up more plasticiser ?

( only needs to happen to softer seals to be a problem )

 

[zzzjim]

don"t even understand half of what you just posted

may not have seen effects of plasticiser in pipes ,but seen it leach out of cables and damage painted surfaces -within a year-

 

[dancinplumba]

may not have seen effects of plasticiser in pipes ,but seen it leach out of cables and damage painted surfaces -within a year-

Insulation on cable is PVC and should not be painted with gloss and is not the same material as plastic pipe

 

[dancinplumba]

But did that water keep getting mixed/re-circulated with 210 litres of fresh water ,ready to soak up more plasticiser ?

Has water running through it every time tap is turned....you been on the pop ?

 

[markfxy]

been on wikipedia more like!

 

[zzzjim]

Has water running through it every time tap is turned....you been on the pop ?

The total no. of litres flow at final outlet ,must be nothing compared with continuous replenish hot with hot that happens within pumped secondary return , that stays hot so boosts leaching effect

( any YES Cider )

 

[lame plumber]

personally if the manufacturers say dont use it, I wouldnt, as come the day it fails, you are in the pooh as the installer who has to defend your actions.

 

[zzzjim]

been on wikipedia more like!

They did'nt call me Magnus at school for nowt !

 

[dancinplumba]

The total no. of litres flow at final outlet ,must be nothing compared with continuous replenish hot with hot that happens within pumped secondary return , that stays hot so boosts leaching effect

( any YES Cider )

If it leeched into water it would be banned

 

[markfxy]

the manufacturers don"t say not to use it they say don"t use it on a continuously circulating return maintained at a constant high temperature, I f you're gonna quote the manufacturer at least take the time to read it and get it right!

 

[zzzjim]

Insurers will be more happy with leakage from sealed domestic CH system, as its un-likely to flood downstairs.

Un-like 3 bar (mains-fed) hot water , plenty of potential damage .

A good reason for G3 ticket , and a service once in a while !

 

[TomLane]

You lot still arguing about this?!?

It's Sunday evening, who gives a tish!!!

 

[Nostrum]

Personally, I'd say mike Jackson got it spot on. It's not been approved for the relevant specification because its not worth the bothering financially.

Doubt it makes any odds, I'd be surprised if it wasn't tested for 24/7 use. Plenty of applications where heating could be on continuously and for them to release a product that couldn't withstand 'worse case scenario' would be utterly stupid.

 

[markfxy]

G3 doesn't make any mention of hot water returns in plastic, I"d love to know how you service a plastic pipe?

 

[markfxy]

You lot still arguing about this?!?

It's Sunday evening, who gives a tish!!!

It"s a choice between this and speaking to the missus thats why I"m prepared to argue all night if i need to:skep:

 

[TomLane]

It"s a choice between this and speaking to the missus thats why I"m prepared to argue all night if i need to:skep:

Ah, I see!

Okay, carry on as you were!

 

[zzzjim]

don"t use it on a continuously circulating return maintained at a constant high temperature,

My point is ,compare years to failure if constant
with how many more you will get if its not constant . ( Warranty period ? )

Insurers don't like paying for gamblers !

( Have not read instructions as I don't fit )

 

[zzzjim]

I"d love to know how you service a plastic pipe?

Replace any fittings showing signs of leaking ?

(or just throw in bin every 20 years)

 

[Howsie]

I"ll choose to ignore it as I dont do nursing homes

I don't do nursings homes but I have clients that are from the Middle East. Usually seven+ bedrooms and bathrooms with servants quarters. They all come and go at different times throughout the year and the set up suits their lifestyle/needs.

Would you plumb the secondary return in plastic?

 

[Howsie]

personally if the manufacturers say dont use it, I wouldnt, as come the day it fails, you are in the pooh as the installer who has to defend your actions.

Simples.

 

[Howsie]

You lot still arguing about this?!?

It's Sunday evening, who gives a tish!!!

Stop trying to keep your post count up Tom!

 

[Howsie]

the manufacturers say no to a return that"s on 24 hours a day why would you install a system that runs through the night, it should also be on a stat to stop the pump running needlessly, then again you would know that being an experienced plumber

And you're point being?

 

[TomLane]

Stop trying to keep your post count up Tom!

I'm bored.

I'm Carol Borederman

I'm Boreder collie

 

[Howsie]

I'm bored.

I'm Carol Borederman

I'm Boreder collie

You're borderline

 

[Howsie]

You're borderline

Feels like I'm going....

 

[TomLane]

Feels like I'm going....

Gone.....

 

[dancinplumba]

Feels like I'm going....

To turn into a superhero ​by any chance ? ;-) ;-) nudge nudge

 

[zzzjim]

Modern tech ,only 1 Click away from sharing secrets !

 

[SafeGasInstall]

I just looked at a job , is a massive house and they want two UHWC ? Shall I run the secondary return in plastic ?