speed fit on secondary return

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speed fit on secondary return

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sheff paul

Just changing some dodgy waste pipes on a dubious bathroom job installed by a DIYer putting speed fit in as some has already been fitted in for some time before ,then notice's the unvented has a secondary return fitted.Do I finish it off in plastic and get done for lunch,or do I rip it all out and get home late,this job is a favour money free one.Has anyone fitted platic on a secondary return set up,yes I know you should not use it.
 
my choice is I'll still use it, I know somebody who had a leak on a soldered joint didn't stop me using them either
 
markfxy said:
Load of nonsense I've used hep on returns for years with no problems its a lower temp than central heating and the pressure is 3 bar max, another bit of scaremongering about plastic yet again!
Click to expand...

If the manufactures say 'No' then surely no it is?
 
the manufacturers say no to a return that"s on 24 hours a day why would you install a system that runs through the night, it should also be on a stat to stop the pump running needlessly, then again you would know that being an experienced plumber
 
markfxy said:
the manufacturers say no to a return that"s on 24 hours a day why would you install a system that runs through the night, it should also be on a stat to stop the pump running needlessly, then again you would know that being an experienced plumber
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Clearly you have never been in or worked in a nursing or old peoples home, heating and hot water 24/7 365 :)
 
markfxy said:
the manufacturers say no to a return that"s on 24 hours a day why would you install a system that runs through the night, it should also be on a stat to stop the pump running needlessly, then again you would know that being an experienced plumber
Click to expand...
Because you can't on hot water due to legionaries, nursing homes are under intense regulation! As are other commercial applications......
 
markfxy said:
the manufacturers say no to a return that"s on 24 hours a day why would you install a system that runs through the night, it should also be on a stat to stop the pump running needlessly, then again you would know that being an experienced plumber
Click to expand...

No mate, they don't. The manufacturers say their product must not be used for secondary returns. No mention of hours per day or anything else. Simply no. It's in black and white on their websites. You can choose to ignore it, but pretending that they allow it under certain circumstances is just wishful thinking.
 
Technically plasticiser will leach out of system where water is always changing ,hence more brittle (less spring back to keep things sealed)

Sealed circuit (ie-Boiler) , plasticiser cannot escape gets re-circulated

( PURE Theory no experiece with plastic plumbing--)

Loss of plasticiser and enbrittlement == fact

Trade offs a) How hot
b) How much water thru system
c) How many years of life
d) How many hours a day pump runs
e) Price of install

Life whole system needs to last -vs- water thru system for effect to happen

Copper rules !
 
zzzjim said:
Technically plasticiser will leach out of system where water is always changing ,hence more brittle (less spring back to keep things sealed)

Sealed circuit (ie-Boiler) , plasticiser cannot escape gets re-circulated

( PURE Theory no experiece with plastic plumbing--)

Loss of plasticiser and enbrittlement == fact

Trade offs a) How hot
b) How much water thru system
c) How many years of life
d) How many hours a day pump runs
e) Price of install

Life whole system needs to last -vs- water thru system for effect to happen

Copper rules !
Click to expand...

load of ole twaddle I bet you don"t even understand half of what you just posted
 
zzzjim said:
Technically plasticiser will leach out of system where water is always changing ,hence more brittle (less spring back to keep things sealed)

Sealed circuit (ie-Boiler) , plasticiser cannot escape gets re-circulated

( PURE Theory no experiece with plastic plumbing--)

Loss of plasticiser and enbrittlement == fact

Trade offs a) How hot
b) How much water thru system
c) How many years of life
d) How many hours a day pump runs
e) Price of install

Life whole system needs to last -vs- water thru system for effect to happen

Copper rules !
Click to expand...
Think your theory is wrong, seen plastic that has been used for dhw that is 25 years old and is still ok, not brittle at all
 
dancinplumba said:
dhw that is 25 years old and is still ok, not brittle at all
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But did that water keep getting mixed/re-circulated with 210 litres of fresh water ,ready to soak up more plasticiser ?

( only needs to happen to softer seals to be a problem )
 
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zzzjim said:
may not have seen effects of plasticiser in pipes ,but seen it leach out of cables and damage painted surfaces -within a year-
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Insulation on cable is PVC and should not be painted with gloss and is not the same material as plastic pipe :)
 
dancinplumba said:
Has water running through it every time tap is turned....you been on the pop ? :)
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The total no. of litres flow at final outlet ,must be nothing compared with continuous replenish hot with hot that happens within pumped secondary return , that stays hot so boosts leaching effect

( any YES Cider )
 
personally if the manufacturers say dont use it, I wouldnt, as come the day it fails, you are in the pooh as the installer who has to defend your actions.
 
zzzjim said:
The total no. of litres flow at final outlet ,must be nothing compared with continuous replenish hot with hot that happens within pumped secondary return , that stays hot so boosts leaching effect

( any YES Cider )
Click to expand...
If it leeched into water it would be banned
 
the manufacturers don"t say not to use it they say don"t use it on a continuously circulating return maintained at a constant high temperature, I f you're gonna quote the manufacturer at least take the time to read it and get it right!
 
Insurers will be more happy with leakage from sealed domestic CH system, as its un-likely to flood downstairs.

Un-like 3 bar (mains-fed) hot water , plenty of potential damage .

A good reason for G3 ticket , and a service once in a while !
 
You lot still arguing about this?!?

It's Sunday evening, who gives a tish!!!
 
Personally, I'd say mike Jackson got it spot on. It's not been approved for the relevant specification because its not worth the bothering financially.

Doubt it makes any odds, I'd be surprised if it wasn't tested for 24/7 use. Plenty of applications where heating could be on continuously and for them to release a product that couldn't withstand 'worse case scenario' would be utterly stupid.
 
G3 doesn't make any mention of hot water returns in plastic, I"d love to know how you service a plastic pipe?
 
markfxy said:
don"t use it on a continuously circulating return maintained at a constant high temperature,
Click to expand...

My point is ,compare years to failure if constant
with how many more you will get if its not constant . ( Warranty period ? )

Insurers don't like paying for gamblers !

( Have not read instructions as I don't fit )
 
markfxy said:
I"ll choose to ignore it as I dont do nursing homes
Click to expand...

I don't do nursings homes but I have clients that are from the Middle East. Usually seven+ bedrooms and bathrooms with servants quarters. They all come and go at different times throughout the year and the set up suits their lifestyle/needs.

Would you plumb the secondary return in plastic?
 
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