radiator popped is this the plumbers fault???

[Ryan Kavanagh]

hi guys,

just looking for some advice. basically i had a system boiler glow worm 40ff in my house.

today i got it converted to a combi boiler. When the plumber had finished and commissioning the system a radiator poped and now needs replacing. they was water everywere.

the plumber said its not his fault? is it?

i said it been working fine for years. He siad the old system wernt a pressurised system the combi is. So now the system is under pressure it cause the radiator to pop. Is they guy genuine or is he just filling me with carp?

the guy has had quite a few head scratching moments today that has got me thinking.

now he has told me the internal fan has broken on the new boiler and its down to the manufactures to sort that.

thanks for any advice guys.

 

[REDSAW]

he's genuine but should have pointed it out to you before hand some thing may let go especially if they are old rads.
internal corrosion cannot be foreseen.
why didnt you have new rads too?

 

[Ryan Kavanagh]

no the current rads are about 7 years old, but are a new design and looks quite new.

 

[Ryan Kavanagh]

he said my system wernt a system set up but a gravity fed system so no pressure.

 

[REDSAW]

not too old dosnt matter.
depends on how clean the system was in the first place.
i have seen a 18month old rad burst on a dirty system fitted by aherm...b/g.
cough up some dosh for a new rad and ask to be fitted for free is a good compromise.

 

[Alanc]

Going from low pressure system boiler to higher pressure combi, I always advise there is a level of risk, same as when you bypass a cwsc, you need to point out what could go wrong.

Al

 

[Destroyer2813]

We had 4 go on a system conversion once all were cheap screwfix rads though

 

[diamondgas]

:welcome: to the forum rRyan ...

I've had it happen twice to me, both microbore systems, and both had been pumping over previously! Unfortunately the new systems are cleaned out and then put under a lot more pressure than they're previously use too! There is no way in predicting whether replacing a boiler can 'cause' a weak point in the existing system to give up the ghost Unfortunate but rare occurrence!

 

[clarky101]

They could.ve been the cheap rads that do the rounds ie screwfix, b&q etc rather than stelrads,
what boiler is it ? it'll be under the warranty

 

[Ryan Kavanagh]

They could.ve been the cheap rads that do the rounds ie screwfix, b&q etc rather than stelrads,
what boiler is it ? it'll be under the warranty

hi,

its a baxi duo tec. 5 year warranty but they dont cover the rads

 

[Destroyer2813]

Sometimes these things happen, people can be to quick to aside blame and we normally get it where's as in reality things like this happen because of poor maitanace in the years prior to it happening

 

[diamondgas]

hi,

its a baxi duo tec. 5 year warranty but they dont cover the rads

maybe your original system was of poor design and the new installation has unfortunately shown that to be true?

 

[Dannypipe]

Not your plumbers fault....though as said, maybe he should have warned you it could happen. I always warn customers about rads and pipework, as I do when converting the hot/cold water services to mains pressure.

Its rare, but it does happen. Feel sorry for the pair of you!!

 

[Subby]

The radiator had probably corroded from the inside due to a lack of inhibitor or air entering the system; this may have caused a weak spot in the radiator which held out with the lower pressure of your old system, but failed with the new, higher pressure. This failure would have happened anyway some time in the future, and I would say the plumber is not at fault.

 

[AWheating]

its not uncommon for the paint on a rad to be the only thing holding water in and pop, more pressure or system flush and it finally leaks. Your radiator was a leak waiting to happen and your probably lucky it went with a plumber around on a sealed system. If it went(old system) while you were at work or even worse on holidays it could have been alot of damage.

 

[clarky101]

Yeh i know the rads are not covererd by the warranty , i wastalking about your boiler problem that you mentioned.....

 

[Ryan Kavanagh]

baxi cant come out till tomorrow now, so thats going to be 2 full days without heating or warm water with you kids.

im totally pee'd off!

 

[Doodlebug]

not too old dosnt matter.
depends on how clean the system was in the first place.
i have seen a 18month old rad burst on a dirty system fitted by aherm...b/g.
cough up some dosh for a new rad and ask to be fitted for free is a good compromise.

Stop having a go at British Gas. Are you saying British Gas fitted a complete new system pipes and everything and left it dirty?


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[Doodlebug]

baxi cant come out till tomorrow now, so thats going to be 2 full days without heating or warm water with you kids.

im totally pee'd off!

It's just one of them things mate, not the engineers fault.


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[jtsplumbing]

Ryan ! most of the blame must land on your doorstep ! its down to poor maintenance of your system, proberly never had any inhibitor in system from day one, How long do you leave your car B4 it has a service ? would it be the fault of the garage if your engine sized because you had not checkd the oil since the last service.?? Pay for the radiator plumber will proberly fit it for nothing.

 

[mountainman]

baxi cant come out till tomorrow now, so thats going to be 2 full days without heating or warm water with you kids.

im totally pee'd off!

Two full days without heating or hot water, absolutely appalling.
What is this world coming to?

 

[villa_tom]

hi guys,

just looking for some advice. basically i had a system boiler glow worm 40ff in my house.

today i got it converted to a combi boiler. When the plumber had finished and commissioning the system a radiator poped and now needs replacing. they was water everywere.

the plumber said its not his fault? is it?

i said it been working fine for years. He siad the old system wernt a pressurised system the combi is. So now the system is under pressure it cause the radiator to pop. Is they guy genuine or is he just filling me with carp?

the guy has had quite a few head scratching moments today that has got me thinking.

now he has told me the internal fan has broken on the new boiler and its down to the manufactures to sort that.

thanks for any advice guys.

Everything is always the plumbers fault. Don't you know?

 

[SimonG]

It's not the plumbers fault, but you should have had a conversation beforehand about swapping from open vented to sealed system and the potential for issues.

Sometimes new things out the box don't work and half the time the annoying bit is the fact you have something in the van that would fix it, but then this would do away with your 5 year warranty so you have to wait for manufacturer.

I'm not as generous as some of the other responders because I would charge to fit the new radiator.

 

[jtsplumbing]

Am I missing somthing here ! thought the OP had a system boiler not open vent ??

 

[SimonG]

Am I missing somthing here ! thought the OP had a system boiler not open vent ??

Good spot, might be getting his terms wrong!

 

[AWheating]

i have known baxi take 3 weeks to fix a boiler which required a £2 part so 2 days is good going in my book.

 

[Doodlebug]

It will be Heat team that call, not had a good relationship with them after one of their engineers left a boiler ID on a British Gas job and I had to pick up the pieces.


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[AWheating]

i had a customer have to wait 3 weeks for a clock jumper on a duotec 2ga, in the end they sent it me in the post cus it was quicker then asking an engineer to come. I asked if i could send them an invoice for fixing there boiler and they didnt like it. Wont touch baxi after this unless custard buys one.

 

[Ryan Kavanagh]

2 days later!

heat team came and fixed in within 5 mins!

apparently you need to leave the hot tap on when commissioning! thats all he did!

im annoyyed with this plumber the fact i was left with hot water or heating with 2 young children when he should of know how to commission the boiler!

plus the guy took the copper cyclinder and left loads of rubbish! he should of either cleared the lot or left the lot. not just took the pipping and tank he could way in!

then on top of all that he left a wire hanging in the emercing heater cupboard live.

what a cowboy! i still owe him £600 and he got to come back to finish a few bits off! im considering telling him not to bother he not getting paid!

 

[SimonG]

2 days later!

heat team came and fixed in within 5 mins!

apparently you need to leave the hot tap on when commissioning! thats all he did!

im annoyyed with this plumber the fact i was left with hot water or heating with 2 young children when he should of know how to commission the boiler!

plus the guy took the copper cyclinder and left loads of rubbish! he should of either cleared the lot or left the lot. not just took the pipping and tank he could way in!

then on top of all that he left a wire hanging in the emercing heater cupboard live.

what a cowboy! i still owe him £600 and he got to come back to finish a few bits off! im considering telling him not to bother he not getting paid!

You'll struggle to withold money because you had no hot water or heating for two days.

Can I just ask a couple of questions.

You got more than one estimate for the works? and decided against the 3k ones and went for the 1k one

You checked his gas safe credentials?

 

[Ryan Kavanagh]

not because i didnt have the hot water or heating for 2 days! but because it was un-necassary for me to be without for that long! dont you agree he should know how to commission a boiler? thats all the problem was he didnt know how to commission it. It was totally un-necassary.

plus leaving live wires arond my house with a 1 and 4 year old.

plus taking all the copper and leaving a load of rubbish(he should take all or nothing, not just the good stuff)

 

[Ryan Kavanagh]

he was only £150 cheaper than some the others! should of went with that now!

 

[jtsplumbing]

Sorry Ryan , but you can-not refuse payment you will be in the wrong, you can withold payment untill job is finished, ask him to return old pipe etc, did you agree that he would clear away the rubbish ? you have to give him the chance to finish the job,
Are you saying that when the plumber tried the run the boiler it would not work ? did you try to use a hot tap B4 Heat-team turned up, if so then the boiler should have worked ! To commisson the boiler it has to be run for heating / hot water so that you can get the correct readings, read through your boiler instructions it will tell you what has to be done, if all the Heat-team fitter did was to turn on a tap ! then why would it not work when your plumber tried it, somthing not sounding quite right,!!

 

[Phil]

Getting rid of rubbish can be a nightmare, trade can't dump for free in council tip. He must of course have warned you beforehand?

 

[Doodlebug]

not because i didnt have the hot water or heating for 2 days! but because it was un-necassary for me to be without for that long! dont you agree he should know how to commission a boiler? thats all the problem was he didnt know how to commission it. It was totally un-necassary.

plus leaving live wires arond my house with a 1 and 4 year old.

plus taking all the copper and leaving a load of rubbish(he should take all or nothing, not just the good stuff)

What boiler is it that needs the tap to run for 5 minutes before it will work?
You have already stated he is coming back so he will take the rubbish then, no plumber leaves valuable scrap on a job for someone else to cash in.
You say wires hanging everywhere, were these live wires? If so then he is at fault for leaving an unsafe situation.


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[AWheating]

i normally put into my written quote that scrap metal is taken into account in price and rubbish is only removed at extra cost as i dont have a waste carring lience. Did you get any written details with the quote?

 

[AWheating]

if its a new ga baxi you have to go through a set sequence to get it running as the boiler purges the heat ex and tests the fuel type etc..... maybe that what happened and he did not read how to get the boiler to run the sequence?

 

[jtsplumbing]

he was only £150 cheaper than some the others! should of went with that now!

Does not mean that you would have got a better job done !!:

 

[SimonG]

As I always think there are two sides to every story, get him to read this thread when he returns, then he can log on and give his side of the story and as a forum we can mediate.

 

[jtsplumbing]

He will have to come back to finish off the commissioning & filling out the log book ! if not then its by-by warranty!!

 

[Doodlebug]

As I always think there are two sides to every story, get him to read this thread when he returns, then he can log on and give his side of the story and as a forum we can mediate.

What a great idea, give the lad a chance to put he's side across.


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[Ryan Kavanagh]

What boiler is it that needs the tap to run for 5 minutes before it will work?
You have already stated he is coming back so he will take the rubbish then, no plumber leaves valuable scrap on a job for someone else to cash in.
You say wires hanging everywhere, were these live wires? If so then he is at fault for leaving an unsafe situation.


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in the cupboard in the landing were he took the copper tank out!

 

[Subby]

i normally put into my written quote that scrap metal is taken into account in price and rubbish is only removed at extra cost as i dont have a waste carring lience. Did you get any written details with the quote?

Do you not need a waste carrier's licence to carry scrap metal?

 

[Doodlebug]

in the cupboard in the landing were he took the copper tank out!

Did he leave live wires?


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[Ryan Kavanagh]

if its a new ga baxi you have to go through a set sequence to get it running as the boiler purges the heat ex and tests the fuel type etc..... maybe that what happened and he did not read how to get the boiler to run the sequence?

im not a plumber so cant say for sure! but it was something along the lines of, 2 commission it the hot tap must be left on during commission to let heat out the boiler. the guy didnt know that and wasnt putting the tap on therefore the boiler wouldnt commission. He said it must of been a fault with the boiler.

thats why im annoyyed. its simply just needed commissing! and i was left without hot water or heating for 2 day becuase he didnt know how to do that.

 

[Ryan Kavanagh]

Did he leave live wires?


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yes, just hanging down. i got a 1 year old and 4 year old and one of them was about to climb in the cupboard when i noticed them and thought best get them checked. good job i did

 

[Ryan Kavanagh]

not sure! im just annoyed he took the good stuff he could fit in his van and left the other rubbish! ye cant have the cake and eat it. either take the lot ot leave the lot. thats my opinion anyway

 

[AWheating]

Do you not need a waste carrier's licence to carry scrap metal?

No its materials

and i dont have to pay the scrap man to take it off me.

 

[AWheating]

im not a plumber so cant say for sure! but it was something along the lines of, 2 commission it the hot tap must be left on during commission to let heat out the boiler. the guy didnt know that and wasnt putting the tap on therefore the boiler wouldnt commission. He said it must of been a fault with the boiler.

thats why im annoyyed. its simply just needed commissing! and i was left without hot water or heating for 2 day becuase he didnt know how to do that.

maybe he did not read the instruction book correctly? either way if it was uncommissioned the bolier should not have been left connected to the gas supply.

 

[Ryan Kavanagh]

maybe he did not read the instruction book correctly? either way if it was uncommissioned the bolier should not have been left connected to the gas supply.

oh right! so that another thing to add to the list of wrong doings!