New radiator in loft causing problems

[jase158]

Towel radiator in bathroom has no Trv all other rads have TRV.

So are you staying tighten the white lock shield in the pic?

yes, if this doesn't work then definetly going through rad, is the top of the radiator below the bottom of the f and e tank?

 

[Best]

Towel radiator in bathroom has no Trv all other rads have TRV.

So are you staying tighten the white lock shield in the pic?

It's not a lockshield valve, I think. It looks like a wheel head Peglers terrier rad valve & as 1King55 has said, maybe a bypass.
I wouldn't turn it off, - get a heating guy to fix everything.

 

[Stevemarch1969]

yes, if this doesn't work then definetly going through rad, is the top of the radiator below the bottom of the f and e tank?

Just trying it now.

tanks are approx 1m above top of rad

 

[jase158]

It's not a lockshield valve, I think. It looks like a wheel head Peglers terrier rad valve & as 1King55 has said, maybe a bypass.
I wouldn't turn it off, - get a heating guy to fix everything.

And the difference between a lockshield valve and wheelhead valve are? definetly not a bypass valve.

 

[Best]

And the difference between a lockshield valve and wheelhead valve are? definetly not a bypass valve.

Same valve, except a lockshield valve has a lockshield head
& a wheel head valve has a wheel head! :smile:
And yes, it definitely is not a proper bypass valve, but possibly used as a permanently bypassing valve & therefore wrong.

 

[Stevemarch1969]

I have tightened the valve with the white knob and put heating only on.

This valve sits on top of the tee the plumber has fitted into the cylinder return.

I assume this is similar to the suggestion earlier of a flow from before the 3 port so if this is open as it was surely its a flow?

 

[jase158]

I was being sarcastic, they are the same thing and so your post no. 52 makes no sense. There is no need for it as 3 port valves close to hot water so always have a circuit, there is no completely shut on 3 port valves. so even if it is a bypass valve it isn't needed!

 

[jase158]

I have tightened the valve with the white knob and put heating only on.

This valve sits on top of the tee the plumber has fitted into the cylinder return.

I assume this is similar to the suggestion earlier of a flow from before the 3 port so if this is open as it was surely its a flow?

you want hot water on only to see if rads get hot when hot water only is on, don't you?

 

[jase158]

I assume this is similar to the suggestion earlier of a flow from before the 3 port so if this is open as it was surely its a flow?

exactly, this is the issue, surprising that you didn't have this problem before though!!

 

[Stevemarch1969]

you want hot water on only to see if rads get hot when hot water only is on, don't you?

Yes just trying that now.

with ch on only all ok but no heat to loft rad. Part of pipe warm where first teed in but doesn't travel to the rad.

cylinder return is now cool since white valve shut. Was red hot all the time before..

 

[jase158]

on the non return valve on pipework to radiator in loft, there should be an arrow, which way is it facing?

 

[Stevemarch1969]

on the non return valve on pipework to radiator in loft, there should be an arrow, which way is it facing?

Facing away from the radiator.

With HW only on all rads incl loft rad heat up!

makes me me think there is a problem with 3 port valve but why do all rads heat up except loft rad when ch selected on programmer but all rads incl loft heat up on HW?

 

[jase158]

Facing away from the radiator.

With HW only on all rads incl loft rad heat up!

makes me me think there is a problem with 3 port valve but why do all rads heat up except loft rad when ch selected on programmer but all rads incl loft heat up on HW?

is that pipe that you just turned off getting hot?

 

[lame plumber]

my question is what person wants to try heating a space in their roof lunacy in todays energy saving ethos

 

[Stevemarch1969]

Not hot no but warm

it used to be too hot to touch but I guess that was when the white valve was open allowing hot water to go straight into the return.

 

[jase158]

must be the 3 port valve, it may of just been the head that was replaced last time, may have gone wrong again or might just be poor quality.

 

[Stevemarch1969]

Whole of 3 port valve was replaced. It is a plumb center own brand about 12 months old. Not sure what they are like? Was done by a plumber.

why would ch only not heat the loft rad but HW heat it? Is this part of the 3 port valve fault?

 

[TBServices]

The cylinder return should always be the last connection to the boiler, or you will get flow down the ch return.

 

[jase158]

check valve not working or wrong way round, shut rad valves on loft rad, put hot water on only if no rads get hot then its check valve. if all rads still get hot then its 3 port valve. (not sure if you already done this). if it is check valve then maybe it has been manufactured incorrectly.

 

[Stevemarch1969]

This may well be the case as the boiler return is 22mm pipe and cylinder is 15mm so it must joint it somewhere.

thanks for your reply.

 

[Stevemarch1969]

check valve not working or wrong way round, shut rad valves on loft rad, put hot water on only if no rads get hot then its check valve. if all rads still get hot then its 3 port valve. (not sure if you already done this). if it is check valve then maybe it has been manufactured incorrectly.

Thanks again.

I will try this tomorrow but from memory when loft rad shut off all is well. But will confirm tomorrow.

what/where is the check valve?

 

[jase158]

I think you would be best shutting rad valves in loft for now, if this prevents rads getting hot then as many have said, replace return pipework

 

[jase158]

Thanks again.

I will try this tomorrow but from memory when loft rad shut off all is well. But will confirm tomorrow.

what/where is the check valve?

non return valve

 

[Best]

The cylinder return should always be the last connection to the boiler, or you will get flow down the ch return.

You can, believe it or not, have the last tee connection on return anywhere on circuit before the boiler to be for radiators. No flow in rads will occur when hot water on if it is the ONLY tee off for rads return.
Heat can however, rise up the return pipe a bit if the pipe is rising from the tee towards rads, so pipe shouldn't be rising.

 

[Stevemarch1969]

non return valve

thanks very much for all your valued help tonight. It has been very very helpful.

will report back tomorrow night when I've tried the check valve out etc.

thanks again

Steve

 

[SafeGasInstall]

Steve you have played with pump ? Which way is your pump pumping ?

 

[Stevemarch1969]

Steve you have played with pump ? Which way is your pump pumping ?

There is an arrow on the metal body of the pump pointing upwards if that answers your question?

When I had the 3 port valve changed by a different plumber he suggested it "may" be upside down but wasn't sure.

I did mention this to the plumber i am using now (who is Gas safe) and hes said it was ok?

Is there a way for me to determine which way its pumping?

Thanks

Steve

 

[Megaflo-Experts]

Arrow on pump indicates direction - should be pointing towards your 3 port valve. Pump should be on the centre branch and "A" (on the valve) goes to heating, and "B" go to hot water.
I can't believe that's piped incorrectly, but it's worth double checking!

 

[Stevemarch1969]

Arrow on pump indicates direction - should be pointing towards your 3 port valve. Pump should be on the centre branch and "A" (on the valve) goes to heating, and "B" go to hot water.
I can't believe that's piped incorrectly, but it's worth double checking!

Arrow on pump body is pointing away from 3 port valve but I believe with some pumps you can rotate them on the body so maybe this is not necessarily right?if there is a way to confirm flow direction I will gladly check.

Looking at valve face on, CH is connected to left port and HW to right

Steve

 

[SafeGasInstall]

Arrow on pump body is pointing away from 3 port valve but I believe with some pumps you can rotate them on the body so maybe this is not necessarily right?if there is a way to confirm flow direction I will gladly check.

Looking at valve face on, CH is connected to left port and HW to right

Steve

steve is time to admit it all lol

 

[Stevemarch1969]

steve is time to admit it all lol

Not sure what you mean?

 

[Stevemarch1969]

White valve in loft shut.

both valves on loft radiator shut off.

no hot water in ch.

as soon as I open Valves on loft rad, other rads heat up.

Any ideas?

 

[SafeGasInstall]

Call a plumber to turn pump around

 

[Stevemarch1969]

Call a plumber to turn pump around

As I said in a previous comment, a few years ago when a plumber changed 3 port valve he mentioned it "might be upside down"

latest plumber is gas safe and I mentioned it to him but he confirms it is definitely not the wrong way round???

could the symptoms in my post above be caused by the pump being wrong way round?

 

[BLOD]

Call a plumber to turn pump around

this is good advice

 

[Stevemarch1969]

this is good advice

I agree but a gas safe engineer has told me it is correct?

 

[lame plumber]

if a garage says your brakes are ok but your car doesnt stop, then what do you do!

 

[Stevemarch1969]

if a garage says your brakes are ok but your car doesnt stop, then what do you do!

I fully accept what you are saying.

if I can confirm my problems described above are caused by a pump being backwards at least I can tell a plumber my problems before I call him.

Steve

 

[SafeGasInstall]

You need to change your plumber

 

[Megaflo-Experts]

This is a wind up! Too many conincidences...valve "MAY" be the wrong way round, pump is the wrong way round, but gas safe engineer says it's okay, non-return valve behaves as it's the wrong way round, but arrow suggests it's correct.
Get someone in who knows what they're doing; if you call a plumber and try telling him what needs to be done, you'll just confuse matters.
Pay a sensible rate, and let him/her sort it out!

 

[Stevemarch1969]

Thanks to everyone on here for their help and advise it is much appreciated.

I will call the plumber who did the job and ask him to come and turn the pump round, failing which I'll draw a line under it and get a new plumber.

Thanks again.

Steve

 

[SafeGasInstall]

Steve where are you ? List your area and some one professional will sort it all out for you !

 

[jase158]

check valve needs replacing or return pipework needs to be moved, this is your problem, nothing else. Pump does sound suspect, would recommend changing it round as although the heads can be swapped the propellers inside only go one way and the flow will only go one way. The only thing is that the boiler shouldn't fire up for more then a few minutes at a time if pump is wrong way round.

 

[BLOD]

Some older boilers will work quite happily with the pump the wrong way round

 

[jase158]

Some older boilers will work quite happily with the pump the wrong way round

ok, I stand corrected, I assumed they all had sensor on the returns!!