Magnaclean picks up loads from my nice clean system

[Gromit]

I had new rads installed two years ago with a power flush, and one year ago a new boiler. Just flushed out with X400 till the water was so clear it looked like drinking water.

Had a Magnaclean installed, ran it for an hour and it had two rings of black stuff on it - not really thick sludge though. Cleaned it off, ran boiler for a few more hours, again two rings of black. Where is the black stuff coming from and will it eventually all get absorbed into the Magnaclean, or is this just what central heating systems do?

 

[AWheating]

what type of system do you have? does it contain inhibitor?

most power flushes and chemical's will not remove all of the contaminates in your system, if your system is pulling in air then that can cause corrosion also. sounds like your magnaclean is working well.

 

[doitmyself]

I would suspect the quality of the powerflush. Was each radiator done individually?

How long did you leave the X400 in the system?

 

[cdodds2004]

you will never remove all magnatite in system, plus if rads are old will be bits in there or even getting created! this is why magnacleans are excellent as it offers permenant protection!

 

[RoryD]

It can always return, we put inhibitor not preventer into systems, your magnaclean is doing its job

 

[Gromit]

Thanks very much. The powerflush was done two years ago when new rads were installed and I imagine rads weren't flushed individually because new ones were going in. Then one year ago a new boiler was installed and at the time X400 put in. The guy who installed the new boiler couldn't have flushed the X400 out enough times because the water was always black. So two weeks ago I put in X400, then after five days flushed it three times and it came out clear.

Anyway, the black rings on the Magnaclean aren't huge. As time goes by should I expect the amount of stuff the Magnaclean picks up to get less and less as all the remaining nasties get picked up or will the system always produce more iron oxide?

 

[stevetheplumber]

yes you will always get some thing sticking to the magnet ive put one on a new system which is mostly plastic pipes and it stilll picked up bits

 

[RoryD]

Thanks very much. The powerflush was done two years ago when new rads were installed and I imagine rads weren't flushed individually because new ones were going in. Then one year ago a new boiler was installed and at the time X400 put in. The guy who installed the new boiler couldn't have flushed the X400 out enough times because the water was always black. So two weeks ago I put in X400, then after five days flushed it three times and it came out clear.

Anyway, the black rings on the Magnaclean aren't huge. As time goes by should I expect the amount of stuff the Magnaclean picks up to get less and less as all the remaining nasties get picked up or will the system always produce more iron oxide?

Gotcha now! ok, when a system is flushed I presumed powerflushed which incorporates the use of a machine. Merely running water the system is insufficient. Generally the system is predosed with a chemical for a couple of weeks to loosen up stubborn sections of hardened sludge. Then there is a procedure to be followed at the time of the flush. Not only are radiators targeted but also the existing pipework. Stubborn blockages must be cut out and replaced.

 

[Gromit]

Thanks for that. I did have it power flushed two years ago when new rads put in and x400 last year when a new boiler in so I didn't think it'd need another powerflush and that more x400 would suffice. Would you expect the quantity that the Magnaclean picks up to reduce in time?

 

[mfgs]

You dont need to check your magnaclean every couple of hours, every couple of months is too often. It is impossible to remove every bit of dirt from a system and the magnaclean is there to pick up anything that is left. If you have inhibitors in the system, then yes in theory the amount of sludge the magnacleans picks up will reduce over time.

 

[doitmyself]

The powerflush was done two years ago when new rads were installed and I imagine rads weren't flushed individually because new ones were going in.

I'd missed the bit about new rads. Can you remember at which stage the powerflush was done - before removing old rads, after removing old but before fitting new, after fitting new?

 

[Steve @ TheHeatingHub]

Anyway, the black rings on the Magnaclean aren't huge.

If there are only black rings on the magnet forget about it, that just little tiny bits getting picked up from the nook and cranies in the system that was missed on the flushing (you will never get everything out) if the entire magnet is furred up with black sludge then I would worry.

If you are really concerned do a water sample and send it off

 

[Gromit]

Thanks gentlemen. I don't remember if the flush was done before or after the rads were put in. I do wonder the what is the right way. It seems a waste to flush rads which are going to be thrown away but I am curious what is correct. I'm not really worried about the magnaclean - it shows that it's working. But I wonder if it picks up bits which flushing missed, then logically after a while the quantity it picks up will slowly decrease?

Thanks Greengator - I may send a water sample out of curiosity. Should I send it to someone like Sentinal?

 

[FD Powerflow]

Whats worth bearing in mind is that good quality inhibitors contain a small amount of cleaner, this is to prepare the metal surface so that the minerals used to protect the system can absorb to the metal. This would remove small deposits of sludge especially once the system has been cleaned as new sealed systems have both temperature and pressure which both aid the process of chemical reaction.

 

[Gromit]

Whats worth bearing in mind is that good quality inhibitors contain a small amount of cleaner, this is to prepare the metal surface so that the minerals used to protect the system can absorb to the metal. This would remove small deposits of sludge especially once the system has been cleaned as new sealed systems have both temperature and pressure which both aid the process of chemical reaction.

Very interesting Mr Powerflow. I put two bottles of X100 in (I have a 13 rad system). Would you expect the quantity of sludge which the magnaclean picks up to reduce over time as it does its job and picks up the last of the sludge missed by the flush?

 

[Steve @ TheHeatingHub]

Thanks gentlemen. I don't remember if the flush was done before or after the rads were put in. I do wonder the what is the right way. It seems a waste to flush rads which are going to be thrown away but I am curious what is correct. I'm not really worried about the magnaclean - it shows that it's working. But I wonder if it picks up bits which flushing missed, then logically after a while the quantity it picks up will slowly decrease?

Thanks Greengator - I may send a water sample out of curiosity. Should I send it to someone like Sentinal?

Yeah, I use fernox and they do a water sample kit that contains 2 small bottles, one for the tap water and another for the CH sample that gets sent to fernox and it comes back with all the pretty numbers of what is acceptable and what is not.

 

[midge]

a water sample kit that contains 2 small bottles, one for the tap water and another for the CH sample that gets sent to fernox and it comes back with all the pretty numbers of what is acceptable and what is not.

Best not mix it up with a urine sample. Both the hospital and fernox will be on the phone pretty quickly!

 

[FD Powerflow]

Very interesting Mr Powerflow. I put two bottles of X100 in (I have a 13 rad system). Would you expect the quantity of sludge which the magnaclean picks up to reduce over time as it does its job and picks up the last of the sludge missed by the flush?

To be honest Gromit, from what I remember of the training course I did with Fernox, Sentinel inhibits in a different way by using Nitrate which stops oxygen binding with Iron (which is why I dont use it, google nitrate poisoning!). I would imagine they still have minerals though so theoretically you would still expect to see the same as if using F1. It might also be that not all the X400 has been flushed out?

Im just starting to go back to the TF1's me and my son fitted last year for servicing and despite the fact that my core business is powerflusing Im still finding decent amounts of magnetite in them.

 

[smileplumbing]

I can only speak from my own installations on this one and that is when ever I have done a powerflush and then fitted a magna clean. THe magna clean has always been almost clean at the next service period. I do wonder whether a lot of flushes are carried out correctly. I know that for me any powerflush unless a very small system is a good days works involving an initial flush through then I individually flush each radiator, then I add chemical and flush each individual radiator, empty and refill system and flush again neutralize if using acidic cleanser such as FX1. And it is really important that you identify any bypass on the system and isolate this as this will hinder the flushing process. I will often change the radiator valves if they are old before as well (customer permitting) as this can sometimes hinder the flush if they are sticking or seized in a partially open position. If possible I always flush with the boiler connected and working as the heat helps to loosen any debris. Feed and vent pipes on a particulary bad system are usually cut out and inspected and replaced if necessary.

 

[AWheating]

i do find it hard to recommend power flushing to people on a boiler change, some companies push it as the magic solution and charge a fortune for it. I have heard figure's of £800 being charged for a 3 bed house by some of the big companies. you sometimes have to question the logic of this when you could have replaced the system complete for not alot more money and know the results.

 

[GrahamM]

Unless you polish the inside of every pipe, every fitting, pump, heat exchanger etc. and then load up with inhibitor you are going to see some residue on the magna. That is what it is there for. It picks up any stray metallic particles/dirt that are running loose in the system. A P/Flush is never going to remove every spec of dirt. Even if your system was pristine over time the magna will pick up some residue as it is a metalic mechanical system.
Unless your filter is caked in residue after the flush, then leave it to do its job.