is it possible to zone upstairs/downstairs

[soccercelt]

I have a 2400sq ft house, 3 beds, bathroom,ensuite upstairs and same downstairs with living room, dining kitchen. I have a 30kw stove along with an oil burner for my heating. Gravity feed opened system. Is it possible i could zone downstairs and upstairs for my different heating needs. Wife and kids will spend most of the day downstairs and instead of running about turning rads of and on every day is it possible i could install something that will just make the heating heat downstairs then when needed, turn it on for upstairs.

Someone mentioned it can be done but ill need stats up and downstairs. If so, how do these work and whats involved in the install.

 

[Riley]

Honeywell Evohome

 

[king of pipes]

As above easiest way is with the Honeywell EvoHome. Kop

 

[SimonG]

Depends how oil and stove are twinned together.

 

[Dkdc71]

And also depending on the way it is piped as well

 

[soccercelt]

And also depending on the way it is piped as well

And also depending on the way it is piped as well

What do you mean what way its piped

 

[soccercelt]

Depends how oil and stove are twinned together.

Twinned together?

 

[soccercelt]

Honeywell Evohome

As above easiest way is with the Honeywell EvoHome. Kop

Is there much to installing this?

 

[soccercelt]

Depends how oil and stove are twinned together.

I'm also considering upgrading my oil burner to a condensing burner. If not this year, defiantly next year but zoning would be top of my plans first.

 

[Dkdc71]

Twinned together - it's a dual heating system we mean the way the oil and stove is linked up pipewise. And you could have a 2 pipe system or your system could have different zones upstairs/downstairs/hot water or it could just be hot water and radiators depending how it was originally piped

 

[soccercelt]

Twinned together - it's a dual heating system we mean the way the oil and stove is linked up pipewise. And you could have a 2 pipe system or your system could have different zones upstairs/downstairs/hot water or it could just be hot water and radiators depending how it was originally piped

The oil burner was the main source of heating. Copper coming from the burner and rest of the house was all in plastic pipe and fittings apart from the pipes coming out of the cylinder.

The new stove, there's 2 pipes coming out the back of it, one going straight up and over to the cylinder and the other is going down, along the floor then up to the cylinder all in copper. It hasn't been connected to the cylinder yet.

 

[Dkdc71]

If the oil is your original pipe system you would have to see the way it is piped if it's possible to zone are you a plumber or are you diying the stove yourself or is a plumber doing it for you no disrespect meant if you are not a plumber don't take a chance with solid fuel it has to be done by a professional it is dangerous if not done right again no disrespect to you we are here to help

 

[Vee]

Heat sources (Oil and Stove) need to have separated water ways, independent of each other.

 

[Best]

How is it planned to pipe the 30kw stove into the heating circuit??
I would get someone to work out how to do this before thinking about how to zone your system.

 

[soccercelt]

If the oil is your original pipe system you would have to see the way it is piped if it's possible to zone are you a plumber or are you diying the stove yourself or is a plumber doing it for you no disrespect meant if you are not a plumber don't take a chance with solid fuel it has to be done by a professional it is dangerous if not done right again no disrespect to you we are here to help

I do plumbing but wouldn't touch this myself. I have a plumber installing it but doing it in stages. The stove has been put in, a pipe coming from the top up into the ceiling towards the cylinder. The other pipe is coming out the bottom, into the floor, along the floor then up the wall towards the cylinder. Both pipes aren't connected to the system yet. Going to do this in stages in the coming months before winter.

What ive gathered( i might be wrong) is that the pipes from the stove get connected to a duel coil cylinder along with a pump etc.. and also gets connected to the pipes going to the rads. That way, it'll heat the rads along with heating the water when not using the oil. Oil can be used to heat up the system when is fire is lit because it can take time to heat the house so a wee kick starter before the stove kicks in whatevers burning.

 

[Dkdc71]

Was just asking get the plumber to check the original pipework if he didn't pipe it to see if it is possible to zone hope that helps and the best of luck with it

 

[SimonG]

So stove and oil not twinned correctly and you have plastic heating pipes.

Why the hell is one of the pipes from the stove going down over before going up to the cylinder?

Recipe for disaster.

I would say your plumber or whoever is doing the work is absolutely clueless.

Or is your cylinder a thermal store?

 

[soccercelt]

So stove and oil not twinned correctly and you have plastic heating pipes.

Why the hell is one of the pipes from the stove going down over before going up to the cylinder?

Recipe for disaster.

I would say your plumber or whoever is doing the work is absolutely clueless.

Or is your cylinder a thermal store?

One pipe going up is for heat rising(flow) and the other is the return into the stove thatll be cooler. Its how stoves get plumbed in.

The house was originally done in plastic back in 2006. Never any problems with the heating. Now wanted an upgrade and a 30kw stove getting installed. You can connect these 2 together. All pipework to the stove is in copper. All pipework connected to burner is copper. all pipework connected to cylinder i copper. If i remember correctly, all teh copper is 2 m from burner and cylinder then connected to plastic. All allowed in building regs.

 

[SimonG]

Oh dear.

Crack on, obviously diy.

 

[Dkdc71]

It's a gravity circuit by the sounds of it if the power goes it's suppose to circulate that was ok years when done and cylinder was right beside heat source but now a lot of cylinders are a good bit away should be fully pumped that's what I do had an apprentice tell me recently sure you don't need a pump or SAFETY VALVE on solid fuel anymore was taught it in college he said told him the clue was in the name SAFETY

 

[Dkdc71]

SimonG a lot of houses now are doing in plastic I'd say 80% over here are doing that way you were obviously trained like me in the proper way COPPER I call the plastic Plumbers can't beat a good copper job

 

[Best]

I do plumbing but wouldn't touch this myself. I have a plumber installing it but doing it in stages. The stove has been put in, a pipe coming from the top up into the ceiling towards the cylinder. The other pipe is coming out the bottom, into the floor, along the floor then up the wall towards the cylinder. Both pipes aren't connected to the system yet. Going to do this in stages in the coming months before winter.

If the cylinder is on an upper floor to the stove, then the both pipes of the stove should ideally be rising to the cylinder. Pointless doing it any other method if it is possible just to rise to cylinder, although I know how it can be done also correctly.
The return pipe is as critical as the flow pipe in regards to allowing full gravity flow.
Where does the flow pipe from stove go after it goes through the ceiling? Does it then travel below upper floors towards the cylinder and then rise?
There has to be heat leak and also thermostatic control of the pump to be done. Stove MIs must be followed

 

[SimonG]

SimonG a lot of houses now are doing in plastic I'd say 80% over here are doing that way you were obviously trained like me in the proper way COPPER I call the plastic Plumbers can't beat a good copper job

Not if the stove is providing heating. No problem with plastic, but not with solid fuel and especially when the plastic, solid fuel and not a clue are combined.

 

[Dkdc71]

I agree with you as regards plastic I wouldn't use it on solid fuel either

 

[soccercelt]

If the cylinder is on an upper floor to the stove, then the both pipes of the stove should ideally be rising to the cylinder. Pointless doing it any other method if it is possible just to rise to cylinder, although I know how it can be done also correctly.
The return pipe is as critical as the flow pipe in regards to allowing full gravity flow.
Where does the flow pipe from stove go after it goes through the ceiling? Does it then travel below upper floors towards the cylinder and then rise?
There has to be heat leak and also thermostatic control of the pump to be done. Stove MIs must be followed

The cylinder is on the next floor. The top pipe straight up then takes a bend then rises along the 9inch joist then takes another bend to the cylinder. The bottom pipe goes along the floor about 2 m then rises up the wall unto the ceiling then rises along the joist then bends into the cylinder.

Is the cylinder not a heat leak? This is me just guessing. I can install a heat leak rad in the ensuite if needed.

 

[soccercelt]

If the cylinder is on an upper floor to the stove, then the both pipes of the stove should ideally be rising to the cylinder. Pointless doing it any other method if it is possible just to rise to cylinder, although I know how it can be done also correctly.
The return pipe is as critical as the flow pipe in regards to allowing full gravity flow.
Where does the flow pipe from stove go after it goes through the ceiling? Does it then travel below upper floors towards the cylinder and then rise?
There has to be heat leak and also thermostatic control of the pump to be done. Stove MIs must be followed

The cylinder is on the next floor. The top pipe straight up then takes a bend then rises along the 9inch joist then takes another bend to the cylinder. The bottom pipe goes along the floor about 2 m then rises up the wall unto the ceiling then rises along the joist then bends into the cylinder.

Is the cylinder not a heat leak? This is me just guessing. I can install a heat leak rad in the ensuite if needed.

 

[soccercelt]

I agree with you as regards plastic I wouldn't use it on solid fuel either

Why not?

 

[soccercelt]

Not if the stove is providing heating. No problem with plastic, but not with solid fuel and especially when the plastic, solid fuel and not a clue are combined.

What do you mean by not a clue.

 

[soccercelt]

Any diagrams of how'd you'd plumb it

 

[Best]

The cylinder is on the next floor. The top pipe straight up then takes a bend then rises along the 9inch joist then takes another bend to the cylinder. The bottom pipe goes along the floor about 2 m then rises up the wall unto the ceiling then rises along the joist then bends into the cylinder.

Is the cylinder not a heat leak? This is me just guessing. I can install a heat leak rad in the ensuite if needed.

Why was the both pipes not installed in same way - straight up first?
Least path of resistance etc.
Some method of excess heat loss needed if pump or electric should fail.
Cylinder not going to take excess heat away much once it is heated, reason is it isn’t designed as a heat emitter - like a rad is. Also your cylinder probably is foam insulated. The stove MIs will state how much Watt is needed minimum for heat leak.
A 30kw stove is powerful

 

[Best]

Why not?

Plastic pipes can’t take direct excess heat that solid fuel stoves will put out.
Especially true when you have an overheat situation (say a power fail) with plenty of very hot water needing to go to heat leaks.

 

[Dkdc71]

My personal preference as regards plastic piping I was trained using copper only plastic piping we would use was hydradare for water mains only time I would use plastic piping is on domestic plumbing for spots I couldnt get copper to.any heating pipework I use copper even if the original pipework was plastic

 

[SimonG]

I won't feed the troll anymore.

 

[soccercelt]

I won't feed the troll anymore.

I will update this later with more pics and explain where everything is.

 

[soccercelt]

Plastic pipes can’t take direct excess heat that solid fuel stoves will put out.
Especially true when you have an overheat situation (say a power fail) with plenty of very hot water needing to go to heat leaks.

What I was of the thinking was, they can't take direct heat so close to the burner or stove. From this stove, your talking 9m linear away from the cylinder.

Back when I built this hpuse, it worked out cheaper for plastic and oil was cheap. Now that I'm upgrading my heating, I can't go replacing all pipes around the house. Talked to numerous plumbers/heating engineers and they all say the stove can be installed along with the oil system if done in plastic.

 

[Dkdc71]

I understand what your saying you don't have to change pipework you are just retro-fitting .the stove the same way if you called me in to fit it I couldn't change all pipework in the original house I would just use copper from the stove we're just trying to help you do it safe and right remember we are looking at this blind and just trying to get a picture in our heads

 

[SimonG]

Well You've been talking to some real feckwits then.

 

[soccercelt]

I understand what your saying you don't have to change pipework you are just retro-fitting .the stove the same way if you called me in to fit it I couldn't change all pipework in the original house I would just use copper from the stove we're just trying to help you do it safe and right remember we are looking at this blind and just trying to get a picture in our heads

I totally understand and appreciate it. Im looking to find out how best to zone it of it can be done because don't want to be heating upstairs when not needed or running about turning rads on and off. Now I'm abit worried it's done wrong and can be dangerous.

 

[Dkdc71]

SimonG I think he means connect the stove pipework in copper and do connections in hot press and the existing pipework after the cylinder sounds like the rads are fed in qaulpex that's what I make of it but if he has a plumber doing the work he should be able to answer all this for him

 

[SimonG]

SimonG I think he means connect the stove pipework in copper and do connections in hot press and the existing pipework after the cylinder sounds like the rads are fed in qaulpex that's what I make of it but if he has a plumber doing the work he should be able to answer all this for him

If!

 

[Best]

I don’t think the OP is using a plumber.
Normally getting an experienced solid fuel installer in, - they would ultimately decide how to pipe and link up the two boilers.
I know I would.

 

[soccercelt]

I don’t think the OP is using a plumber.
Normally getting an experienced solid fuel installer in, - they would ultimately decide how to pipe and link up the two boilers.
I know I would.

I can guarantee that I'm getting a plumber in. Do you think I'd put my family's life at risk for the sake of saving a few quid, not a chance! I'm well capable of piping out a full home but when it comes to stoves and burners, I would get a plumber in.

 

[soccercelt]

Well You've been talking to some real feckwits then.

Can you tell me why.

 

[soccercelt]

SimonG I think he means connect the stove pipework in copper and do connections in hot press and the existing pipework after the cylinder sounds like the rads are fed in qaulpex that's what I make of it but if he has a plumber doing the work he should be able to answer all this for him

Yes, that's what I said above. All pipe work from stove to cylinder will be in copper and leaving the cylinder in copper for 2meters then all pipes to rads in plastic. All pipewpipe leaving the oil burner is in copper for 2m also.

 

[SimonG]

Still haven't answered how you are connecting the two systems.

 

[SimonG]

I can guarantee that I'm getting a plumber in. Do you think I'd put my family's life at risk for the sake of saving a few quid, not a chance! I'm well capable of piping out a full home but when it comes to stoves and burners, I would get a plumber in.

Well you are not capable, otherwise you wouldn't be on a forum asking bow to create zones.

 

[Best]

Plastic pipes can still be damaged with excessively hot water, even if first few metres are done in copper.
If you can pipe a house easily, then you can pipe a stove link up fairly easily IF you know a safe and correct method.
If you are getting a plumber in, then just let them get on with it if they are experienced in solid fuel link ups.
But if your plumber is dithering on how to do any of it, then just get somebody else

 

[soccercelt]

Well you are not capable, otherwise you wouldn't be on a forum asking bow to create zones.

What are you even talking about

 

[soccercelt]

Plastic pipes can still be damaged with excessively hot water, even if first few metres are done in copper.
If you can pipe a house easily, then you can pipe a stove link up fairly easily IF you know a safe and correct method.
If you are getting a plumber in, then just let them get on with it if they are experienced in solid fuel link ups.
But if your plumber is dithering on how to do any of it, then just get somebody else

Any chance you read the thread. I came here asking about zoning. I know I could pipe a stove but I wouldn't do it in case there's something I missed and the fact, it's illegal. The plumber isn't dithering, it's getting done in stages because I don't need the stove on untill winter.

 

[rpm]

Oh! A popcorn worthy thread, haven`t had one for a while.