When you increase the pipe size on hot supply, it also increases the volume of system. Which means you will need to pull more cold water off before hot water occurs at tap/shower.(high water bills)
If you do not increase the pipe size on the hot you won't achieve much. So your between rock and hard place. From the new cylinder installation run a 22 mm up through the building and tee off at each floor, whilst doing that run a 15 mm secondary return from the highest point leg and back to cylinder ( if there are no long horizontal runs it may well work on gravity, saving the bronze pump costs)
It is also worth remembering that when comparing sizes of pipe, it done on Sq area.
Eg. 15 mm pipe 176 mm Sq
22 mm pipe 380 mm Sq
28 mm pipe 615 mm Sq
32 mm pipe 804 mm Sq
You can see a 22 mm pipe is more than double to that of a 15 mm pipe etc etc etc.
You will always be limited when working of mains supply as you have no control over available supply.
When the use of CWSC (cold water storage cisterns) were employed. One had a constant to work with, albeit low pressure the pipes could be sized according to the flow rates required. As the storage in houses reduces over time ( the installation of direct main systems, combi, unvented etc) draw lots of water from main system, which were not designed to provide such a demand. That is why you can expect lower provision during high demand times.
Hello justlead1,
I am trying to find out if / where I am going wrong regarding calculating the cross sectional area of the Copper pipe sizes that we have both mentioned in our posts:
I am not trying to be pedantic - just the opposite - I noticed that the figures in your message did not seem anywhere near figures that I have often Calculated / used when calculating pipework volumes so I did the Calculations again.
I also realise that the difference in these Calculations don`t really have much significance for this thread - but just to try and find out why they differ so much ?
My figures don`t come anywhere near yours.
I know that these internal diameters below are not exact - but rather than use something like `0.9mm wall thickness` / `13.2mm internal diameter` [15mm Copper tube] for example I have rounded up the wall thicknesses to 1mm - 1.25mm and 1.5mm -but they are not incorrect enough to have caused the difference in our figures - just for ease of calculations I have worked out my figures based on these internal diameters:
15mm pipe = 13mm internal diameter
22mm pipe = 19mm internal diameter
28mm pipe = 25.5mm internal diameter
35mm pipe = 32mm internal diameter
My Calculations then give:
15mm pipe - 6.5 x 6.5 = 42.5 x 3.142 = 132.74mm sq.
22mm pipe - 10 x 10 = 100 x 3.142 = 314.2 mm sq
28mm pipe - 12.75 x 12.75 = 162.56 x 3.142 = 510.771 mm sq
I know that You used a notional 32mm pipe but just to complete my Calculations - a 35mm pipe - internal diameter 32mm:
35mm pipe - 32mm internal diameter
35mm pipe - 16 x 16 = 256 x 3.142 = 804.352 mm sq
As I have typed this message with the Calculations I can now see that your figures are for the radius of the external diameters.
E.G: 15mm pipe - 7.5 x 7.5 = 56.25 x 3.142 = 176.737 mm sq
However your comment about 22mm Copper pipe being over double the cross sectional area and volume of a 15mm Copper pipe is still valid and well made to the OP.
I have continued to post this only because it took me so long to type this message - because I type with only one finger.
I assure You that I have not posted it to be `nasty` or to contradict you for any kind of `one up man ship` or any similar motive.
I hope that You will take this message in the way that it is meant - it is meant in a Friendly manner.
Regards,
Chris
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