Does anyone use a Borescope to inspect flues in voids?

[AlexGas]

yet there seems to be no definitive answer to a simple question.
This thread is proof in point.

It is clear it the TB 008 (Edition 2), have a look.
You have to work with the latest info.

 

[Mbear]

Originally Posted by mountainmanI'm open to correction but if a preexisting flue in a void does not have inspection panels then the installation would be classed as NCS, not AR.
Plus, in my opinion, a remote camera view could not come close to a proper visual inspection.




Can it not be NCS untill 31/12/2012??

It can be but only if it passes the risk assessment, ie carbon monoxide alarms in every room along the flue route and the parts of the flue u can see have to be fitted perfectly. It's much easier for a flue to fail than it is to Pass the risk assesment

 

[Mbear]

Here's how I'm proceeding ATM.
Pre 2013
•Flue in void, no hatches, no co alarm/s for every room/space, visible flue ok = AR
•flue in void, no hatches, co alarms in every room, visible flue ok = NCS
•flue in void, no hatches, co alarms in every room, visible flue has NCS 's = AR

The last bullet point could be up for debate slightly

Post 2013
No hatches = AR no matter if co alarms fitted. Although if stains are visible on voided space (gyproc or whatever material) then its ID until proven the flue is not at fsult

 

[Halesowen1]

It can be but only if it passes the risk assessment, ie carbon monoxide alarms in every room along the flue route and the parts of the flue u can see have to be fitted perfectly. It's much easier for a flue to fail than it is to Pass the risk assesment

Just trying to say that Kirkgas is not always correct as he keeps telling us, it can be NCS.

 

[billybob150811]

im not fighting kirk,s battles he,s big enough and ugly enough to do that but as i have been to carry out test in a flat with a broken flue you start to work backwards to defend the installer this one had a baby going to a hospital for oxyhaemglobin test and lawyers to screw are all about so do you print off that 14 page assesment and fill them out and keep them its a hard battle to fight so being a coward i go for hatches that is the practical approach i feel what do others think

 

[Mbear]

Hatches all the way, it's the safest option for both onsite GSR eng and customer alike. We can sleep sound at night knowing the 'would be flue' is safe as houses and the cust can also sleep in the knowledge that we have ok'd the flue rather than "it might be ok but as we can't see it u can use the boiler at ur own peril I u wish"

 

[Halesowen1]

All it means is that private customers will stop the guys coming to service their appliances, or worst case scenario is they will get a dodgy gas man in or have a go at doing it themselves.
Here is a little question, in theory the flue could get damaged the day after an inspection, so could be loosing P.O.C into the said flue boxing for best part of 12 months. If it was sealed before up into loft, this would more than likely have been safe for the home owner as no P.O.C into the main living areas. If you then put these hatches in for inspection, the P.OC could then be loose around the house if these hatches are not 100% sealed (and we know they wont be), may have an hatch in kids bedrooms etc.

 

[Halesowen1]

Hatches all the way, it's the safest option for both onsite GSR eng and customer alike. We can sleep sound at night knowing the 'would be flue' is safe as houses and the cust can also sleep in the knowledge that we have ok'd the flue rather than "it might be ok but as we can't see it u can use the boiler at ur own peril I u wish"

All we know is that it was safe at time of inspection, but now we have potentially serious holes in the flue boxing, maybe in kids rooms etc for the flue products to leak out from if the flue gets damaged in between services.
I can see the good point in being able to inspect whole of flue and joints, but I can also see the potential hazards.

 

[mountainman]

Excellent points, guess who would end up out of work and in court arguing the folly of opening an inspection access into a void.
Is there a BS EN Specification for access panels??

 

[Mbear]

All it means is that private customers will stop the guys coming to service their appliances, or worst case scenario is they will get a dodgy gas man in or have a go at doing it themselves.
Here is a little question, in theory the flue could get damaged the day after an inspection, so could be loosing P.O.C into the said flue boxing for best part of 12 months. If it was sealed before up into loft, this would more than likely have been safe for the home owner as no P.O.C into the main living areas. If you then put these hatches in for inspection, the P.OC could then be loose around the house if these hatches are not 100% sealed (and we know they wont be), may have an hatch in kids bedrooms etc.

It's The same for a gas safety/landlord inspection or even a car mot. There's not alot u can do about that

 

[kirkgas]

Just trying to say that Kirkgas is not always correct as he keeps telling us, it can be NCS.

if i supported another footy team i would be paranoid haha
i responded in a light hearted manner to anothers post, ? in reply to what i answered, the comment was about it being NCS, he didnt mention CO alarms so i went on the current TB which i understand completely, so based on his comments its AR, take a chill pill hales

 

[Halesowen1]

if i supported another footy team i would be paranoid haha
i responded in a light hearted manner to anothers post, why have i put your nose out of joint? have i rebukked you too many times? in reply to what i answered, the comment was about it being NCS, he didnt mention CO alarms so i went on the current TB which i understand completely, so based on his comments its AR, take a chill pill hales

Just by saying you are always right, you were incorrect and should not be telling people things that are not correct, you should know better.

 

[Puddle]

Back to co alarms,most are not suitable in bathrooms due to moisture,so all flues in boxing through bathroom,which there are many,have to be inspection hatched now or AR ?

Someone mentioned to me the other day,you can fit one in the room(s) next to bathroom,is this correct?

 

[Mbear]

Back to co alarms,most are not suitable in bathrooms due to moisture,so all flues in boxing through bathroom,which there are many,have to have inspection hatched now or AR ?

Someone mentioned to me the other day,you can fit one in the room(s) next to bathroom,is this correct?

Pretty sure if flue is fitted over a wc this equals a straight AR mate

 

[kirkgas]

All it means is that private customers will stop the guys coming to service their appliances, or worst case scenario is they will get a dodgy gas man in or have a go at doing it themselves.
Here is a little question, in theory the flue could get damaged the day after an inspection, so could be loosing P.O.C into the said flue boxing for best part of 12 months. If it was sealed before up into loft, this would more than likely have been safe for the home owner as no P.O.C into the main living areas. If you then put these hatches in for inspection, the P.OC could then be loose around the house if these hatches are not 100% sealed (and we know they wont be), may have an hatch in kids bedrooms etc.

i totally agree with this, and its something a lot of guys have said as soon as we tell them about TB008 when they are in for re-assessment (it is shocking that they dont know about it by now, but that just shows their firm or their own (if SE ) procedure for keeping up to speed is way short of what it should be) but they are sharp enough to know that as soon as they start filling out the Warning Notice and sticking on the AR aticker then they wont get called back again next year, so something that is intended to increase safety could end up decreasing work to the guys who are doing a good job

 

[AlexGas]

Back to co alarms,most are not suitable in bathrooms due to moisture,so all flues in boxing through bathroom,which there are many,have to have inspection hatched now or AR ?

Someone mentioned to me the other day,you can fit one in the room(s) next to bathroom,is this correct?

One of my customers has got a boxed flue without any hatches in a bathroom . I've install the bathroom for him. The flue has been boxed way before me. I haven't touched his boiler yet. I don't think he's gonna like AR. Oh dear!

 

[Mbear]

It matters not a jot who inspects it, it'll still be AR. If an engineer is willing not to AR then they deserve to receive every punishment available

 

[kirkgas]

Just by saying you are always right, you were incorrect and should not be telling people things that are not correct, you should know better.

what advice have i given to who that isnt correct?

 

[Halesowen1]

i totally agree with this, and its something a lot of guys have said as soon as we tell them about TB008 when they are in for re-assessment (it is shocking that they dont know about it by now, but that just shows their firm or their own (if SE ) procedure for keeping up to speed is way short of what it should be) but they are sharp enough to know that as soon as they start filling out the Warning Notice and sticking on the AR aticker then they wont get called back again next year, so something that is intended to increase safety could end up decreasing work to the guys who are doing a good job

What happens the following year when the boiler is due a service?? They wont risk ringing any company out as they are scared it will need turning off and isolating this year. Does this make the boiler and flue safer?? So not only has it been found to be at risk or ID it will now more than likeley not be inspected for many years to come.

 

[Halesowen1]

what advice have i given to who that isnt correct?

Read the earlier posts about you stating things are AR when they could still be NCS, I am not going to go looking and quoting, I am sucking on my chill pill.

 

[REDSAW]

chill out all of ya.

 

[billybob150811]

there is something of a precedent with backboilers and ventilation the public understood, this year is meant to be letting the public no whats coming, i havent had anyone slap me on the back and thank me for the inconvienence but thats life

 

[GrahamM]

All we know is that it was safe at time of inspection, but now we have potentially serious holes in the flue boxing, maybe in kids rooms etc for the flue products to leak out from if the flue gets damaged in between services.
I can see the good point in being able to inspect whole of flue and joints, but I can also see the potential hazards.

If the flue is properly supported along it's length; is fully inspected and safe during service; how likely is it to be damaged between services? As a procaution I always advise on CO alarms; even more so when the appliance is in a bedroom.
I would also say the boxing in would be unlikely to have contained the POC's from a split flue anyway. How likely is it that the boxing is 100% air tight?

Back to co alarms,most are not suitable in bathrooms due to moisture,so all flues in boxing through bathroom,which there are many,have to be inspection hatched now or AR ?

Someone mentioned to me the other day,you can fit one in the room(s) next to bathroom,is this correct?

The CO alarm must be in every room along the route of the flue. In an adjacent room does not comply with the risk assessment. Even if the flue was to pass through a void in a neighbors property, they too must be given a CO alarm.

 

[CES]

What happens the following year when the boiler is due a service?? They wont risk ringing any company out as they are scared it will need turning off and isolating this year. Does this make the boiler and flue safer?? So not only has it been found to be at risk or ID it will now more than likeley not be inspected for many years to come.

regardless, that's not your job to worry about what they will do next year if you AR or ID the appliance this year. If you NCS it because you fear you will lose work (as it is coming across like this in your statement) then you will be ripped up for erse paper in court of law should anything happen.
better a cold house than a cold body, this is the message as gas engineers we should be getting across.

 

[Halesowen1]

regardless, that's not your job to worry about what they will do next year if you AR or ID the appliance this year. If you NCS it because you fear you will lose work (as it is coming across like this in your statement) then you will be ripped up for erse paper in court of law should anything happen.
better a cold house than a cold body, this is the message as gas engineers we should be getting across.

I am not saying it for my behalf, I am just saying that home owners will stop getting appliances serviced.
As I dont do servicing I dont give a monkeys about them not calling me back the following year, I stick to installs so the chances are I will only come across these situations if I am replacing the boiler anyway so it wont matter to me as I will be getting the extra work of moving the boiler or fitted inspection holes.

 

[kirkgas]

Read the earlier posts about you stating things are AR when they could still be NCS, I am not going to go looking and quoting, I am sucking on my chill pill.

haha ok then i will take one too,