chimney sweep

[unfinishedsweet]

Hi there, can you lads advise mi about legislation about chimney sweeping prior to gas fire installation? There is a house that used to use solid fuel burning appliance and now the chimney is to be used with gas fire. The client states that he will sweep the chimney himself using a kit purchased via internet. Are we allowed to install gas fire to a chimney used before for solid fuel that is not swept by professional and certified, but done by DIY method?

Regds

 

[prs1]

I would of thought it doesnt matter as long as its done properly-here liesthe problem,how can someone whos not a professional no what standards are required!
I believe that there is a proffesional organisation that sweeps have to belong too,a bit like gas safe.

Personnaly id include it in my quote that way u know its done properly-after all chimneys can catch fire-if its had wood burnt up it it could be full of tar and creosote!
Then its a case of if he wants u to fit the fire its your way or no way,but thats up to you!

 

[prs1]

Have a look online at "NACS" national association of chimney sweeps"

 

[GQuigley67]

I wouldn't touch it, I would prefer if professionals done it imho too much responsibility lies on us when fitting gas fires

 

[unfinishedsweet]

That's the thing. I am not going to process the installation before I see proper sweeping certificate. Just wanted to know what law says about it, I mean if it's legal requirement to obtain relevant chimney sweeping cert.

 

[prs1]

If hes prepared to buy kit to sweep one chimney hes probaly the type of customer that might just fit the fire his self

 

[prs1]

It doesnt matter about what the law says(it does) but how can u prove its upto standard without proper paperwork-end off

 

[unfinishedsweet]

GQuigley67 : If chimney's swept by professional, then gas fired installed, spillage test passed then spilling occurs some time later due to poor sweeping. Who's responsibility is for this uccurrence?

 

[unfinishedsweet]

He seeks for installer to fit the fire, but want to sweep himself as 'saw someone doing it in one of his properties'

 

[tamz]

As far as i'm aware there is no chimney sweep ticket.
Sweeping a chimney is about as hard as sweeping the floor apart from the potential mess.
A diyer will probably make a more thorough job of it.

 

[GQuigley67]

GQuigley67 : If chimney's swept by professional, then gas fired installed, spillage test passed then spilling occurs some time later due to poor sweeping. Who's responsibility is for this uccurrence?

the gas fire installer obviously

 

[stevetheplumber]

id agree with tamz saw one done recently and took all of 10 mins brush up and down till no more soot was falling then sweep up

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

we had a chimney sweep kill someone in wales in fact 3 miles from me it was on a solid fuel parkray,flue was swept but there was a nest in there sweep allegedly done a flue flow which it passed as we all know a smoke bomb can sometimes go thro a nest the customer died a week later co poisoning,again if he had a co alarm,might not have happened

 

[REDSAW]

Sounds a tight get to me if he wants to buy brushes to keep but dont want to pay £45ish for a sweep.?

 

[capitanpugwash]

£24 per chimney here from an old boy in Slough. Must have been sweeping chimneys 60+ years!!!!

 

[REDSAW]

well i say around £40 but i think this guy was a little more hi-tec sweep, he had a dust sheet and van mounted vac.lol.

 

[tamz]

well i say around £40 but i think this guy was a little more hi-tec sweep, he had a dust sheet and van mounted vac.lol.

Does the job and is less messy but the old brush is better and better still if done from the top with a drop ball and brush on a rope. Can near guarantee the sweep in the case Gasman spoke of was an electric sweep.

 

[aZZaSweep]

Hi guys I'm a sweep and solid fuel fitter and I found this thread while googling for something else.

I was happy to see it because as a sweep I come across this problem regularly.

Gas fitter installs DFE fire and doesn't get the flue swept before fitting. After a few days of drying out the flue starts dropping soot all over their nice new install.
Not only is this a mess but soot is a highly toxic and acidic carcinogen. Let alone the fact that the flue hasn't been checked out.

Legal requirement or not surely common sense says get it swept first.

A pro sweep is trained and can issue safety certs that comply with all the regs and insurance requirement. This covers the installer back and reassures the customer.

Simply doing a spillage test is not enough.

On a job recently I found a blockage, its not unusual as midfeather bricks and parging mat'l can fall off and partially block the flue at the bends but this felt different. So I ran the cctv camera up and found 2 cans of Stella.

Turns out that the roofers they had used were hiding the beers in the pot, I guess the bag broke and the cans got lodged in the first bend.

The going rate for a sweep is about £45.00 just add it to the bill. But use a pro sweep that can issue certs, these will be members of NACS, APICS, Guild of master chimney sweeps or The Institute of Chimney Sweeps.

I soundness test a lot of flues and I would say that getting on for 90% of the Victorian ones fail. It's usually the midfeathers, the brick walls that divide up the chimney into flues. These are just bricks stacked up on top of each other and not tied in at all and creates a continues vertical mortar seam on the breast and back wall. As time as gone by the motar falls out of this joint and allows the gasses to pass into the adjoining flue. The gases then hit the colder air and drop down the flue and come out of the other fireplace or vent bringing with it our old friend Carbon monoxide. Nice!

The other thing I see regularly is to do with the wrong terminals. I literally have a garage full of vent inserts that I've pulled out of pots. Vent inserts should not be left in if the flue is live, that goes for gas, oil or solid fuel.

For those that might be interested, here is a link to a list of terminals that must not be used on any live flue.
http://www.apics.org.uk/images/WARNING_Do_not_use_these_Terminals_on_live_chimneys.pdf

Sorry if I've gone on a bit and am teaching grandmar to suck eggs but I see this all to often.

cheers
aZZaSweep

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

soundness test a lot of flues and I would say that getting on for 90% of the Victorian ones fail. It's usually the midfeathers, the brick walls that divide up the chimney into flues. These are just bricks stacked up on top of each other and not tied in at all and creates a continues vertical mortar seam on the breast and back wall. As time as gone by the motar falls out of this joint and allows the gasses to pass into the adjoining flue. The gases then hit the colder air and drop down the flue and come out of the other fireplace or vent bringing with it our old friend Carbon monoxide. Nice!
this is exactly what i find on 90% of terraced houses in wales typically they are 100 year old + flues used for solid fuel and quite frankly they are knackerd every 10 fire fits i service 9 will fail for this reason

 

[aZZaSweep]

Hi gas man, yes these old brick flues are a worry. Even the one's that pass, particularly flues being bought back into use can fail after a few weeks of expansion and contraction.

Try this its a shocker!
Heat the flue for 5-10 mins and put in a few smoke pellets. When smoke starts to exits the pot, cap it with a bin liner and gaffer tape then seal up the fireplace with plastic trapping the smoke in the flue.
Standard soundness test so far.
Now cut a slit in the plastic and put some pressure in the flue a hair dryer will do. Now watch...
I've seen smoke come out under toilets, behind skirting boards and ceiling cornice and of course the in loft. Its a smoke show pink floyd would be proud of.
BTW this is not a recognised test.

 

[Dannypipe]

Might not be a recognised test, but certainly sounds thorough.

Can't see me going on the roof to seal the pot though!

All very interesting as I've just added gas fires to my gas tickets. I'm so wary now, I think I'll just leave em alone! Needed it for back boilers all the same.

 

[aZZaSweep]

Sorry Dan didn't mean to scare anyone off expanding their business. We just have to be careful with the older flues.

Anything that is built after 1966 should be fine as long as the flue tiles have been fitted the right way up....arghhhh! lol.

But that is easy to check with a good bright torch.

With DFE fires most of the heat goes up the chimney and helps to push the toxins up and out. So as long as the flue is in reasonable condition, swept and inpected yearly and the correct terminal is fitted they mostly work ok.

But it's not ideal.

I wish there was some way to enforce the use of CO alarms too.

 

[stevetheplumber]

Might not be a recognised test, but certainly sounds thorough.

Can't see me going on the roof to seal the pot though!

All very interesting as I've just added gas fires to my gas tickets. I'm so wary now, I think I'll just leave em alone! Needed it for back boilers all the same.

you dont need a fire ticket for back boilers for some strage reason

 

[Dotty]

aZZaSweep

Cheer mate, your posts made for some excellent reading and I may have even learned a wee bit (for me that's bad. new stuff goes in pushes old stuff out!)

Welcome to the forums and I hope you'll carry on contributing!

 

[aZZaSweep]

croppie
Thanks for that it's appreciated. Love your sig btw, I had to google it, but I get it now.
I'll drink to that!
Thanks to everyone else that liked and thanked my post too.

It was with slight trepidation that I commented on this thread as sweeps weren't exactly getting positive comments.

But I do understand that this has more to do with the cowboys that infest our industry.

Bad news is always remembered more than good.

If you hire a sweep and he turns up in a Volvo estate with a golf club bag of drain rods and a Henry hoover tell him to take a long walk on a short peer!