Boiler and 8 rads in church rooms....

[mutley racers]

just been to look at a job which BG quoted 6k to install. Just the boiler and a bout 10metres of pipework to cylinder. No rads. They have also put in a 1st floor which they want underfloor heating in. gutted as the gas pipework is to big for me. I remember on here some where where a guy needed to run a gas pipe some distance and someone said run it in sections and just put a valve with test point. All the way to boiler. So if I can get someone to put a valve with test point, can I take on this job?

 

[hammers4spanner]

if its under your cubic volume?

 

[plumber0808]

Do you not know anyone with a commercial ticket?
You do the majority and they do the bit that you can't.

 

[clarky101]

As long as your meter is under 0.035 your ok....You can fit up to 35 mm copper...

 

[mutley racers]

i read in another post that if i get a guy with a commercial ticket to put in a iso with test point, (he checks all pipework and so) i can carry on the install as long as it is less the the cubic volume. As hammers says above.

 

[hammers4spanner]

Need a bit more info
size boiler and pipework
if its just pipework your going onto what size?
you can put in 35 mm copper up to a fair few meters depending on cubic volume

 

[mutley racers]

below is what Kirk wrote in 2012...

''it is perfectly acceptable for you to get a commercial guy to fit seperate iso valves and test points and test the whole installation, then for you to work from each iso, as long as each leg you work on doesnt have an IV of more than 0.035m3, and remember if each leag has IV above 0.02m3 you need a different purge procedure''

Have not done the calcs yet but it is only going to be a system boiler. So not over 70kw, and it will only be around 3 metres of gas run

 

[hammers4spanner]

so what size is currently in situ??
as you state gas run is to big if its not over 70 kw and only 3 meter gas run then i assume your tee'ng into something bigger??

 

[mutley racers]

yes it will be going into 11/2 inch barrel

 

[hammers4spanner]

put it like this i'm domestic and have a gas job in few weeks time where have to tee into 4 inch iron gas pipe however i have subbed this to a commercial gas guy i know who will be doing relevant gas works then installing a lever valve to which point i can work downstream of this with smaller pie size.

 

[hammers4spanner]

pipe size not pie size lol

 

[mutley racers]

that is what i needed to know. thanks hammers. Do you know this commercial guy? Or can you call any commercial guy to sub contract it out to? I don't think many people would want to do this.

Also, when it is time to commission, are you allowed to remove test nipple on the meter to do working pressure? to check for the millibar drop? Or do you need to get commercial guy to do this?

 

[mutley racers]

oh, i read it again and yo know him.

 

[hammers4spanner]

Its someone i work with and do all his installs he has every ticket going so works well for my business and good earner for him. Put it like this at 6 k from bg youd still be very competative even if you sub a bit of work out to a commercial gsr .am sure there are a few commercial guys on here

 

[hammers4spanner]

Gas Purge

cost of hire equip

 

[mutley racers]

yea, i will come in cheaper than that, even with all the rads. The underfloor heating they want done at a later stage, which will be a big job. Will need help on that. I think I will use the company whn1 uses. They come to job and plan all for you for "free" if you buy from them.

I hope there is someone around London who has a commercial ticket who can help

 

[mutley racers]

cabaffled...i got the job but the client has said that on an other guys quote, he put low surface temperature radiators and a 30 cdi system boiler. And he has asked if i could change mine to LST's. But my calculations came out as 40kw and so with the space available for rads, i had to quote using k3 rads. So what has happened there? No way I can get low surface temp rads to heat this area

 

[mutley racers]

just thinking, if the temp running to the rads is 30-50, then this is kind of low temperature isn't it?

 

[hammers4spanner]

Just tell them ypur calcs come out adequate and unless they wish to change then its down to their secision . Obviously email this so its all there if its not good enough

 

[stani]

Also tell them that with lst's they need to be on an awful long time before people go into the church, most churches can only afford to heat the church just prior to people going in, possibly an hour but with LSTs it's going to have to be on several hours before, and in a really cold winter they may need putting on the day before. Your idea of normal rads is the best and most economical way forward.

 

[mutley racers]

I shall do just that. Thank you

 

[mike_s]

The answer is likely to be radiant heating, I read a book on it and did an awful lot of research into heating churches. They need fast heat up times when only used sparingly, pointless wasting the energy trying to heat all the air in the room if it has say 10M high ceilings which can lead to cold downdraughts. These buildings usually have very little insulation and thick walls. Also you need to keep the organ area cool. I'd go for gas plaque heaters if it is for the main hall but you need commercial acs for these. If it is for the small halls then perhaps just put the biggest LST's in that you can and explain that they may have to wear warm clothes. Traditionally churches were only built with background heating or no heating at all and people wore long coats.

 

[hammers4spanner]

cant you put commercial fan convectors in??

 

[mutley racers]

I can but then my price will be higher. And also they will need an electrician to put sockets in. I shall email them and see what they say

 

[mike_s]

What do you mean by commercial fan convectors? Will they not be top noisy for a church? This is why I went for the radiant plaques. Some manufacturer's call them church heaters they are that well suited to the job. You do still need to get an electrician in with them.

 

[mutley racers]

It is for 2 halls. One has 3 metre high ceilings and needs 19kw of heat as it 16metres by 7 or something. The other is all is all over the place and has half 3 metre ceilings and half 10m ceilings with those plaque heaters hanging down. But they intend on extending the upstairs so all ceilings will be 3 metres high. And that is what I based my calcs on

 

[hammers4spanner]

Fan convectors are ideal for churches as they offer rapid heating in large spaces and quiet in operation . Downside they cost a bit more , I would push for what you originally priced and if they deviate then extras

 

[mutley racers]

Emailed them stating what I got from here about sticking to original design. Let's see what happens

 

[plumber0808]

How did you get on with this?
The churches that I have worked on I have fitted Biddle LSTs. They are good, instant heat and they look ok.

Low Surface Temperature | Biddle-Climate control and climate separation equipment

 

[mutley racers]

Have not started it yet. Will at the end of the month. I shall look into those biddles. Thanks you