Mystery of the leaking toilet

[AJW89]

Had a new en suite fitted in March last year...
The toilet leaked - not all the time just at night we would wake up to a wet floor, we swapped the toilet... same thing. We then swapped all connectors on the toilet and swapped the toilet for a different manufacturer and we are still getting leaks every other night. This is the 3rd toilet and all connectors have been changed. My plumber is at a lose end and we do not know where to go from here any advise would be well received. I have videos of the leak from behind the toilet showing the camera pointing to the front of the toilet but it won’t let me upload them.
Thanks

 

[rpm]

Isolate the water to the cistern and see if the cistern empties,
Change your plumber.

 

[Harvest Fields]

Any pictures mate?

 

[AJW89]

Any pictures mate?

I’ve attached 4 I’ve screenshoted the video at different points so you can see where the water is comming from
Thanks

 

[Harvest Fields]

I cannot see properly from the picture. Where is the water next too when it is visible?

 

[AJW89]

I cannot see properly from the picture. Where is the water next too when it is visible?

This is from a dash cam at the back of the toilet pointing towards the front of the bowl the water is comming from the left. It appears to come from under neath toilet side and then follows the grout line out the front and sides

 

[Old Account]

I cannot see properly from the picture. Where is the water next too when it is visible?

Can’t seem to understand th picture either

 

[Old Account]

This is from a dash cam at the back of the toilet pointing towards the front of the bowl the water is comming from the left. It appears to come from under neath toilet side and then follows the grout line out the front and sides

Did you check the pan connector if that’s connected properly to the toilet? Did you try changing the pan connector?

 

[AJW89]

Can’t seem to understand th picture either

I just taken these you can see the dash cam and where it is pointing if that makes sense

 

[AJW89]

Did you check the pan connector if that’s connected properly to the toilet? Did you try changing the pan connector?

Yes changed the pan conecter twice now
I’ve wrapped kitchen roll around all connectors to check if wet when we have a leak and all are dry

 

[rpm]

Pipe from cistern to pan leaking at cistern end.

 

[rpm]

Pipe from cistern to pan leaking at cistern end.

Therefore water tracking down the vertical and dropping off before tracking along the horizontal.

 

[snowhead]

It can't be the toilet pan then, it's got to be further back towards the wall and running under the tiles or down a grout line to the left (from the back of the pan.)

 

[Harvest Fields]

As above. Run your fingers around the top pipe from cistern to pan. Or move pan completely and see if the water is rising upwards.

 

[rpm]

Or move pan completely and see if the water is rising upwards.

In english please HV

 

[Riley]

Yes. Drilled pipe underneath working up screwhole

 

[Harvest Fields]

As above mate

 

[Aire]

Is that flexi pan connector clamped round a pan connector extension?

 

[rpm]

Yes. Drilled pipe underneath working up screwhole

As above mate

What drilled pipe?

 

[rpm]

Is that flexi pan connector clamped round a pan connector extension?

Push fit isn't it

 

[Harvest Fields]

What drilled pipe?

Screwed possibly.

 

[rpm]

Screwed possibly.

Which pipe are you two talking about?

 

[Aire]

Which pipe are you two talking about?

Possibly one below the floor which may have been screwed through with the toilet fixings.

 

[Riley]

What drilled pipe?

Water pipe as in drilled down through tiles and caught a pipe

 

[Harvest Fields]

Could be any mate.

 

[rpm]

Ah, got you now! A pipe under a pan that shouldn't be there.

Wondering how the member got on with same problem and being taken to court now.

 

[Aire]

If you've wrapped all connections in kitchen roll and they've been dry but the floor still gets wet, It could possibly be as Riley has said, a screwed pipe under the floor so remove the toilet and the fixings and see if you get wet. Failing that it could be either condensation or you need to aim better when your using the toilet

 

[SimonG]

Which pipe are you two talking about?

The invisible one under the pan

 

[Rob Foster]

Is this a raid from the tilers again ? hmmm ?

 

[Staffy85]

i had one like this a few years ago , after installation i tested the toilet {vanity type} with around 10 flushs , paper tissue around the flush pipe and pan connector all dry so thats me done! , two weeks later we get a phone call , wet floor! , replaced the pan connector as the flush pipe was dry , passed the paper towel test , phone call again a week later! basically i pulled the toilet out set it up on a bench and poured water through it manually so i could see the back side perfectly , turns out it was a tiny pin hole in the pottery around the flush area but not near the flush pipe , a small drip would of occured with around 10 flush's i recon , took quite abit of water to produce that one drip , that drip then adds up over a week + ...

 

[Chalked]

Wouldn’t be the first porous pan I’ve seen.

 

[Aire]

Wouldn’t be the first porous pan I’ve seen.

I agree but this is op's 3rd. Not impossible all are faulty but fairly unlikely

 

[Chuck]

If this isn't fixed yet, try getting a couple of bottles of different coloured food dye. Put one colour in the cistern, another into the water in the pan. Leave some white kitchen paper where the puddle forms and wait...

This should narrow down your search area a bit.

Note added later: I've had great success using dyes for tracing the source of difficult leaks but keep in mind that they may stain some types of finish. So, if the bathroom floor has been done with in Carrarra marble tiles at a gazillion quid a square meter you probably don't want to use this method without thinking about how to protect the finish. On the other hand, a leaky bog is a problem that has to be fixed somehow.

 

[Riley]

Where the loos from

 

[AJW89]

It can't be the toilet pan then, it's got to be further back towards the wall and running under the tiles or down a grout line to the left (from the back of the pan.)

When it has leaked - all pipe work leading to the toilet cistern and waste are dry and if it’s comming from under tiles would I not have a wet patch on the ceiling below?
Only thing I think of doing is taking the toilet completely out and see if it leaks from
Somewhere else ?

 

[AJW89]

Where the loos from

Better bathrooms

 

[AJW89]

If this isn't fixed yet, try getting a couple of bottles of different coloured food dye. Put one colour in the cistern, another into the water in the pan. Leave some white kitchen paper where the puddle forms and wait...

This should narrow down your search area a bit.

Note added later: I've had great success using dyes for tracing the source of difficult leaks but keep in mind that they may stain some types of finish. So, if the bathroom floor has been done with in Carrarra marble tiles at a gazillion quid a square meter you probably don't want to use this method without thinking about how to protect the finish. On the other hand, a leaky bog is a problem that has to be fixed somehow.

Thanks for the reply we are worried about damaging the tiles like you said but may end up having to do this

 

[Riley]

Why not remove the toilet for a couple of days and just rule out water coming up through tiles

 

[Pickwickpick]

Why not remove the toilet for a couple of days and just rule out water coming up through tiles

This is probably your best next step.

If I've understood correctly, the leak happens at night and not when you're around/using the toilet? Using two different coloured dyes as recommended by @Chuck is a great idea, but you're concerned about staining your tiles.

You could try this:

cover floor surrounding toilet with kitchen towel (up to a couple of feet distance from it), cover where the pan connects to the soil stack with kitchen towel, place kitchen towel where the pan & cistern join, surround the pipe that supplies water to the cistern with kitchen towel.

Then the "fun" bit starts, set yourself a timer to go off every 15min and each time it goes off inspect the kitchen towel without disturbing it, until there's an initial trace of water.

Its time consuming and a lot more hassle than using dyes but won't damage your tiles. It will also show you whether the water is coming from somewhere else, hence surrounding a wide area around the toilet. Once you've narrowed down the location the water is coming from report back and we'll see what we can do.

 

[Harvest Fields]

As above. Run your fingers around the top pipe from cistern to pan. Or move pan completely and see if the water is rising upwards.

I’m sure I was the first person to say this!

 

[rpm]

I’m sure I was the first person to say this!

Err how when your original post says "As above ...................."
(Please note I have no wish to argue or start a willy waving contest)

 

[Riley]

Who doesn’t love a Willy waving Contest

 

[Harvest Fields]

Err how when your original post says "As above .."
(Please note I have no wish to argue or start a willy waving contest)

It says or move the pan completely the A’s above was reference to the pipes connected to the toilet

 

[rpm]

It says or move the pan completely the A’s above was reference to the pipes connected to the toilet

Well thats cleared that up. Do you get an extra point for being the first to suggest something nowadays.

 

[Riley]

That’s the game rpm didn’t you know

 

[Harvest Fields]

Well thats cleared that up. Do you get an extra point for being the first to suggest something nowadays.

I was actually trying to side with you as other people had mentioned it after me. But hay ho.

 

[Chuck]

Thanks for the reply we are worried about damaging the tiles like you said but may end up having to do this

People sell UV tracer dyes that glow under UV light but are otherwise invisible. For example:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Invisible-Blue-Reactive-Water-Dye/dp/B00KPF5A3M

I've never tried these myself and I'd definitely do a test on a relatively invisible patch of any surface you are worried about.

 

[Chuck]

Who doesn’t love a Willy waving Contest

So that's what you get up to in the Plumbers' Arms...

 

[Chuck]

If I've understood correctly, the leak happens at night and not when you're around/using the toilet?

This can happen as a result of a combination of two independent faults. Firstly the float valve is set too high or is faulty and is letting by. When not being flushed, the level in the cistern creeps up. Secondly, the overflow has not been installed correctly and leaks when the cistern level gets up to the outlet...

I always test overflows for leaks and proper operation very carefully. Once bitten, twice shy...

My apologies if someone else has already suggested this. There's a lot of noise on this thread so I might have missed it.

 

[Riley]

So that's what you get up to in the Plumbers' Arms...

Shhhhh it’s a secret