Water Softener Problems

[RETTS100]

Hi,

I had a Monarch Water softener fitted about 2 years ago. My bathroom is still not limescale free, the stored hot water still tests as hard. If I test the cold feed from the softener that shows as softened, but the stored hot water always shows a being hard, if not as hard as the unsoftened feed.

I had the unit serviced by Monarch, but this has not helped. What is interesting is the amount of limescale seen on the shower values is intermittent, some weeks its worse then others.

I have 100 Gallon Cold Storage and 60 Gallon Hot Storage and a Monarch Midi unit they recommended for the amount water I use.

Can anyone offer some advise, the Monarch engineers are not very helpful beyond servicing the unit.

 

[steadyon]

If the hot water cylinder has a lot of old lime-scale in it, this will tend to "dissolve" back into the softened water, raising its hardness. Assuming all is well with the softener, and that it is set to regenerate at appropriate intervals, possible solutions are:

a. Change hot water cylinder - quick but expensive
b. If you have a low level immersion heater, it may be possible to drain the tank, remove the heater and physically remove a lot of lime-scale through the opening.
c. If you have a high level immersion heater and a wet and dry vacuum cleaner it may be possible to remove the immersion heater, stir up the water at the bottom of the cylinder and vacuum out water and lime-scale.
d. Use lots of water via the hot water cylinder, with a more frequent regeneration. This will flush out the old lime-scale. You don't need to heat the water, although it would probably be more effective if you did. I'd do it on the basis of fill the cylinder, let it stand for a day, empty, refill and repeat.

 

[chris watkins]

If the hot water cylinder has a lot of old lime-scale in it, this will tend to "dissolve" back into the softened water, raising its hardness. Assuming all is well with the softener, and that it is set to regenerate at appropriate intervals, possible solutions are:

a. Change hot water cylinder - quick but expensive
b. If you have a low level immersion heater, it may be possible to drain the tank, remove the heater and physically remove a lot of lime-scale through the opening.
c. If you have a high level immersion heater and a wet and dry vacuum cleaner it may be possible to remove the immersion heater, stir up the water at the bottom of the cylinder and vacuum out water and lime-scale.
d. Use lots of water via the hot water cylinder, with a more frequent regeneration. This will flush out the old lime-scale. You don't need to heat the water, although it would probably be more effective if you did. I'd do it on the basis of fill the cylinder, let it stand for a day, empty, refill and repeat.

Spot-on steadyon but I think I would go with option c. (unless it is still full of scale when I opened it up then it's a.)

oh & better check the hot water outlet pipework as well.

 

[Unregistered]

Its not an immersion heater, its water tank heated by my boiler and there is no immersion heater opening. Its also a horizontal tank so there is no easy access to the tank and it would be almost impossible to remove it from its current location without some alterations to the room in the roof. What about descaling the system, Fernox seem to offer a solution that can be used to do this?

 

[chris watkins]

That was a bit silly wasn't it, a cylinder that if it goes wrong you can't easy replace it !!

Have you checked the both ends of the cylinder for a 2 1/4" brass blanking plug, most will have or is there not enough room to see ?

 

[Unregistered]

It was custom made. It's not it can't be removed, I would rather not due to the cost of doing so. So can it be descaled, the tank is about 6 years old.

 

[chris watkins]

It was custom made. It's not it can't be removed, I would rather not due to the cost of doing so. So can it be descaled, the tank is about 6 years old.

Anything is possible (well almost), it just might be at a great deal of cost, just like replacement. And finding a plumber to take the job on could also prove difficult I know I would not be interested unless there was no liability on me if it leaked during or after my work, also messing about in the side eaves is not my idea of fun anymore.

I have here'd that Oust is good you just might need a few packs. LOL

On a serious note - if a chemical is used, it must be a WRAS approved product for that purpose under the Water Reg's 1999.

 

[steadyon]

From what you've written it would seem that the only realistic option is to get rid of the lime-scale in the existing tank. There are two ways of doing this:

a. Wait until the softened water has dissolved out all the scale. Could take a long time, but minimum disruption. Should be cheap, unless you are on a water meter and do some sort of continuous flush / daily burst flush.

b. Use a chemical to remove the scale. Quicker, but the cost of the chemical needs to be considered, together with the cost of flushing the system afterwards and ensuring that all the chemical is out at the end. Fernox DS3 would probably do the job, as would Killrock - but they're not cheap. You'd also need to be sure, particularly with Killrock that there was somewhere for the gas generated by the scale dissolving to escape. Should be OK with a vented tank, which is what I think you've got. If you are going to use a chemical, heat the tank as it will act much quicker, but produce gas quicker as well. I'd want to flush cold cistern and hot water tank at least five times afterwards, with the hot cylinder heated after filling each time. Then test with a pH meter to make sure reading within 5% of incoming cold main.

If it were my house I'd go option b. For a customer I'd advocate option a, and I'd certainly want a disclaimer against system faults if they selected option b.